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abauer
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 24
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 Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: Work Permit concern |
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Hello ESL community,
I plan on going to Poland fairly soon to restart my English teaching. I'm been doing some reading and so far, it appears as though I need a work permit to even work in Poland. My concern is that, I'm a US citizen currently residing next door in Ukraine, and I was wondering if this work permit has to be obtained in the US or can I get a permit here or in a nearby country?
For those of you in Krakow, how do you like teaching there? |
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the new guy
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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OMG.,... here we go again.
20 views and no reply. I think i know why..... cuz this topic has been covered and disected to death.
go to PAGE 2 and read this>> http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=67254 7th post by me. |
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Harry from NWE
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Work Permit concern |
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| abauer wrote: |
| I plan on going to Poland fairly soon to restart my English teaching. I'm been doing some reading and so far, it appears as though I need a work permit to even work in Poland. My concern is that, I'm a US citizen currently residing next door in Ukraine, and I was wondering if this work permit has to be obtained in the US or can I get a permit here or in a nearby country? |
There are two questions here:
Firstly, will you be working for a Polish ministry of education approved school? If you will, you do not need a work permit, but you do need a visa. If you will not, you do need a work permit. However, the process of applying for a visa is almost identical, the only difference is that instead of submitting the certificate promising you a work permit once you have a visa, you submit a letter from the director of the school stating that the school meets the guidelines for work-permit-free employment.
Secondly: can you justifiably claim that you are permanently resident in Ukraine? If you can, you can apply for your visa there. I know a number of Australians who used their right to reside in the UK as a basis for getting visas processed in the UK rather than going back to Australia. |
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the new guy
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Work Permit concern |
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| Harry from NWE wrote: |
There are two questions here:
Firstly, will you be working for a Polish ministry of education approved school? If you will, you do not need a work permit, but you do need a visa.
If you will not, you do need a work permit. However, the process of applying for a visa is almost identical, the only difference is that instead of submitting the certificate promising you a work permit once you have a visa, you submit a letter from the director of the school stating that the school meets the guidelines for work-permit-free employment.
Secondly: can you justifiably claim that you are permanently resident in Ukraine? If you can, you can apply for your visa there. I know a number of Australians who used their right to reside in the UK as a basis for getting visas processed in the UK rather than going back to Australia. |
Harry.....I've stated before with PL government links that US citizens DO NOT NEED a work permit for teaching in PL.
I challenged you over 3 months ago to provide documentation to prove that US citizens need a work permit, and you just put up some website all in Polish which 99.7% of us cannot read.
So....find us some official page in English that backs up your claim!! I did to back up mine. I'll put it up again.
http://www.wup.mazowsze.pl/cudzoziemcy/angielski.pdf << its ALL in ENGLISH!! |
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hrvatski
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Work Permit concern |
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| the new guy wrote: |
| I challenged you over 3 months ago to provide documentation to prove that US citizens need a work permit, and you just put up some website all in Polish which 99.7% of us cannot read. |
If Harry puts that Polish link here then I'll have a read of it and confirm/deny. I wouldn't be surprised if such info is not available translated. |
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Harry from NWE
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Work Permit concern |
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| hrvatski wrote: |
| the new guy wrote: |
| I challenged you over 3 months ago to provide documentation to prove that US citizens need a work permit, and you just put up some website all in Polish which 99.7% of us cannot read. |
If Harry puts that Polish link here then I'll have a read of it and confirm/deny. I wouldn't be surprised if such info is not available translated. |
You need to check two documents: First http://www.udsc.gov.pl/Wykonywanie,pracy,przez,cudzoziemcow,w,RP,511.html
"Ponadto na podstawie rozporządzenie Ministra Pracy i Polityki Społecznej z dnia 30 sierpnia 2006 r. w sprawie wykonywania pracy przez cudzoziemc�w bez konieczności uzyskania zezwolenia na pracę (Dz. U. Nr 156, poz. 1116, z 2007 r. Nr 120, poz. 824, z 2008 r. Nr 17, poz. 106, z 2009 r. Nr 21, poz. 114) wykonywanie pracy przez cudzoziemc�w na terytorium Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej bez konieczności uzyskania zezwolenia na pracę jest dopuszczalne w przypadku cudzoziemc�w:" (Rough translation: "Moreover on the base regulation of the Employment Secretary and the social policy from 30 August 2006 r. the performance of work by foreigners without the need to obtain a work permit (Dz. At. No. 156, pos. 1116, from 2007 r. No. 120, pos. 824, from 2008 r. No. 17, pos. 106, from 2009 r. No. 21, pos. 114) the performance of work by foreigners in the Republic of Poland without the need to obtain a work permit is acceptable in case of foreigners:")
"3) będących nauczycielami język�w obcych lub prowadzących zajęcia w językach obcych, kt�rzy wykonują pracę w ramach um�w i porozumień międzynarodowych, kt�rych Rzeczpospolita Polska jest stroną;
4) będących nauczycielami język�w obcych, kt�rzy wykonują pracę w przedszkolach, szkołach lub plac�wkach, o kt�rych mowa w przepisach o systemie oświaty, lub Ochotniczych Hufcach Pracy;
5) będących nauczycielami język�w obcych, kt�rzy wykonują pracę w zakładach kształcenia nauczycieli, o kt�rych mowa w przepisach o systemie oświaty;" (Rough translation: "3)being teachers of foreign languages or giving classes in foreign languages which perform the work as part of international treaties and agreements, of which Republic Poland is a side; 4) being teachers of foreign languages which perform the work at nursery schools, or institutions which are being specified in regulations of the educational system, or Voluntary scout troops of the Work; 5) being teachers of foreign languages which perform the work at units of the teacher education which are being specified in regulations of the educational system;").
Then you look at http://www.menis.pl/prawo_oswiatowe.html to see which institutions are specified. Here's a hint: just calling a business venture "The OK Super-Cool School" does not make it an acceptable institution.
To Mr Angry: the key word in your information is "teachers". Teachers work at things called schools. However, before a company can benefit from the rights afforded to a school, it must be approved by the Ministry of Education. If you can't understand that, try to find somebody who will explain it without using long words. |
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wildphelps
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 39
Location: Lubuski
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Have to agree with Harry here, the key to the no visa requirement is employment in a public school. That might be another advantage to working (even part time) in one ... But that probably belongs in another thread.
I seem to remember in the Pole Bashing thread New Guy saying in reference to ZUS/insurance:
"I'd be happy if my school paid 50% of my required 784zl for the above payments not including taxes."
Of course working (even part time) in a state school would take care of that 100% ...But that again belongs in another thread. |
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the new guy
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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i give up with this crap.
I'm tired of trying to give some logical factual input that is easy to understand.....but Harry just feels the need to complicate things. Really... whats the point in spewing all your info in Polish?? NOTHING in your last post relates at ALL to "specific task"
I don't need your condescending comments. Do you think you are better than all of us??
Getting my teaching job was just the thing I needed to come here and start my business. I don't even teach anymore. I have more than enough money to live here for the rest of my life without working.
I'm getting into importing and going to do something that I love and will have a comfortable living. No more dead end english school teaching for me.
all i know is that me being a Canadian, I do NOT/did NOT need a work PERMIT, however I needed a work VISA.
My school faxed a letter to the consulate in Canada, I submitted my app, and 5 days later I had my VISA.
My school is NOT recognised/accredited by the PL government system. It is a private venture and have over 15 locations throughout PL.
I worked on a 3 month contract basis.
My Społka gets paid, and from that I must pay all things as a normal business would. PIT,ZUS, etc....
DONE!! |
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abauer
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Work Permit concern |
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| Harry from NWE wrote: |
| abauer wrote: |
| I plan on going to Poland fairly soon to restart my English teaching. I'm been doing some reading and so far, it appears as though I need a work permit to even work in Poland. My concern is that, I'm a US citizen currently residing next door in Ukraine, and I was wondering if this work permit has to be obtained in the US or can I get a permit here or in a nearby country? |
There are two questions here:
Firstly, will you be working for a Polish ministry of education approved school? If you will, you do not need a work permit, but you do need a visa. If you will not, you do need a work permit. However, the process of applying for a visa is almost identical, the only difference is that instead of submitting the certificate promising you a work permit once you have a visa, you submit a letter from the director of the school stating that the school meets the guidelines for work-permit-free employment.
Secondly: can you justifiably claim that you are permanently resident in Ukraine? If you can, you can apply for your visa there. I know a number of Australians who used their right to reside in the UK as a basis for getting visas processed in the UK rather than going back to Australia. |
Crap, it looks like I'm gonna have to fly back to the states.
Thanks for the info |
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Harry from NWE
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Work Permit concern |
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| abauer wrote: |
Crap, it looks like I'm gonna have to fly back to the states.
Thanks for the info |
You don't have to fly back, you can go through all the paperword here (I know people who have done it). The problem is that it is really really difficult to do all the paperwork here. One thing that you might want to do is come here in early September, find a job, start the paperwork, fly home for Thanksgiving, get the paperwork finished and then come back.
| wildphelps wrote: |
| Have to agree with Harry here, the key to the no visa requirement is employment in a public school. That might be another advantage to working (even part time) in one ... But that probably belongs in another thread. |
It doesn't have to be a public school, it can be a private school but private schools need to be Min. Ed. approved before they can take advantage of the legal benefits of being a school (state schools have such benefits by default).
| the new guy wrote: |
| I'm tired of trying to give some logical factual input that is easy to understand..... |
The problem is that you are not giving factual input.
| the new guy wrote: |
| but Harry just feels the need to complicate things. |
Not at all, it is simple: work at a Min. Ed. approved school or get a work permit.
| the new guy wrote: |
| whats the point in spewing all your info in Polish?? |
You seem to have missed the translated part of my post.
| the new guy wrote: |
| I don't need your condescending comments. |
Although other people need to know that your information is wrong. As it has been for the three years that you have been mouthing off about your incorrect knowledge of immigration and employment law.
| the new guy wrote: |
| Getting my teaching job was just the thing I needed to come here and start my business. |
That�s weird, a year and a half ago (i.e. after you�d been here for a year and a half) you were telling us about how you were leaving Poland. But now you tell us you were only teaching so you could come here and start your business. Most odd.
| the new guy wrote: |
| I don't even teach anymore. |
Do you think you�re better than us now?
| the new guy wrote: |
| I have more than enough money to live here for the rest of my life without working. |
Well done you, you are better than us.
| the new guy wrote: |
| I'm getting into importing and going to do something that I love and will have a comfortable living. |
As noted above, you are so much better than us.
| the new guy wrote: |
| No more dead end english school teaching for me. |
And you really do know that you are so much better than us.
| the new guy wrote: |
| My school is NOT recognised/accredited by the PL government system. It is a private venture and have over 15 locations throughout PL. |
Looking at the grammar in that last sentence, I fear your school (funny that you don�t refer to it as �the school I used to work at�, seeing how you don�t teach anymore) might have a bit of trouble trying to pass the Min. Ed. tests.
| the new guy wrote: |
| My Społka gets paid, and from that I must pay all things as a normal business would. PIT,ZUS, etc.... |
Normal businesses don�t pay PIT: PIT is personal income tax. And how come your Społka �gets� paid by the school? You don�t teach anymore. Remember? |
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the new guy
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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gee Harry.... you have too much time on your hands to write all that /\
I'm not going to defend myself against your attack.... Unlike you...I have a life. |
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Harry from NWE
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| the new guy wrote: |
| gee Harry.... you have too much time on your hands to write all that /\ |
No, just entertaining myself while I wait for a document.
| the new guy wrote: |
| Unlike you...I have a life. |
Which would explain why you're posting on a teachers' forum (even though you aren't a teacher) at ten o'clock at night.... |
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abauer
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Work Permit concern |
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| abauer wrote: |
Crap, it looks like I'm gonna have to fly back to the states.
Thanks for the info |
You don't have to fly back, you can go through all the paperword here (I know people who have done it). The problem is that it is really really difficult to do all the paperwork here. One thing that you might want to do is come here in early September, find a job, start the paperwork, fly home for Thanksgiving, get the paperwork finished and then come back.
When you say "here" I'm assuming you mean Poland, yes?
Hmm, interesting. I'm finding out all sorts of strange things about this matter as I investigate further. Actually, a school in Krakow is already interested in taking me in this July for a summer program then if everything is good, I shall continue work there. Would it be possible to start the paper work in late June/early July also? Is this applicable to visas as well, because that's where it needs to start with me. These people you speak of who have started the paperwork in Poland, what did they do with their time while waiting for all the documents to be processed? |
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hrvatski
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Just go to the Ukraine every time your 3 month stay runs out. The returning stamp is enough to renew your stay in Poland. I believe theoretically you should spend some certain amount of time outside the EU, however no one seems to enforce it. |
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abauer
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| hrvatski wrote: |
| Just go to the Ukraine every time your 3 month stay runs out. The returning stamp is enough to renew your stay in Poland. I believe theoretically you should spend some certain amount of time outside the EU, however no one seems to enforce it. |
I'm sick of being outside the EU, it's not as good. I plan to work in Poland, which requires additional documentation, especially working at a private language school. I'm able to get away with doing that here in UA, but being in a Schengen zone like that seems risky. |
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