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AMIDEAST- Egypt

 
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Vgrace



Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Plattsburgh, NY

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:20 am    Post subject: AMIDEAST- Egypt Reply with quote

Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences with AMIDEAST in Egypt?

(And yes, I have done a search already!) Smile

Thank you! Shukran!
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16121
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are taking away my fun if you have already done a search. Laughing So, you have learned that AMIDEAST is a dependable employer who will pay you the market rate for your skills - language schools being entry level jobs usually. I note that you have also been looking at Morocco. AMIDEAST is also there (along with the other dependable employer ALC). I have never worked for them myself, but I have friends who have worked for them or are working for them in Yemen, Syria, Morocco, Kuwait, Egypt, and Tunisia. They have also moved into Oman now.

If you don't have an MA, and want to try out the Middle East teaching in a Language School, I would say that you would be hard pressed to find a better entry level employer.

VS
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Vgrace



Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Plattsburgh, NY

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks VS for your reply! I do have a Masters in TESOL. I have been teaching French for the past 8 years but want to transition to ESL. I would really love to work in Egypt for a bit, and Morocco. None of the "better" international schools are hiring right now so I'm looking for info on various agencies. There seem to be a lot of varying opinions which makes it hard to discern good and bad advice. What is a bad salary or working environment for one person may be okay for another....

Thanks again. I will continue my quest for information and my random mailings of my resume, etc.

Smile
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starlight



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:17 pm    Post subject: AMIDEAST -- age discrimination for sure! Reply with quote

The correspondence below was a result of an advert that I answered (listed on Dave's ESL cafe Smile)

My initial inquiry simply outlined my credentials and experience. I made a point of NOT mentioning my age. The subsequent response was very favorable indeed.

THEN I sent another message in which I DID mention my age. The recipient obviously checked out the 'age' factor with a colleague (see below).

The final message I received (below) was that there was no possibility of a teaching job, 'not due to age' but because of all the other candidates they had to choose from. This is a completely illogical response, given his first response to me prior to my having mentioned my age.

Clearly, this place has age discrimination big time. But because it purports to be an equal opportunity employer, it gets around this discrimination by declaring the employer has no problem with age, but the students might have! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(MOD edit for personal emails posted without writer's permission)
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16121
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a number of teachers working for them who are your age and even older, so they definitely do NOT discriminate by age. But, I doubt that they would "foreign hire" many people of that age - ie pay their way and give full benefit packages. And since I am very close to this age myself, I can understand why they may not do that. (I don't know if you were applying for a foreign hire position or not) Most of the older teachers live in the countries and have taught in the Middle East since they were young.

If you are honest, you know that there are very few employers in the world that will hire you at your age... sad fact of life that we all best get used to...

VS
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starlight



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:17 pm    Post subject: AMIDEAST Reply with quote

Hi VS. Don't know how you know what my age is, given that it was edited. But no matter. Thanks for your input. I agree that at my age, it is very unlikely that I would be hired at all. That is not the issue. The issue is the CLAIM to be an equal opportunity employer, which presumably means that age is not a consideration. Why not just call a spade a spade: we prefer people who are not over ??? 55? 65?? 75?? whatever. Many older people are still quite 'functional', so why waste their time and energy by holding out false hope? Older people who are not 'fit' or 'functional' would be very unlikely to apply for a job at all! It makes so much more sense (at least to me) just to state up front that they do not want older people. Legal 'consquences' really have nothing to do with it, given that if they can't get around the age factor one way, then they'll try another way. And, no, I wasn't looking to be a foreign hire. I've always had my own medical insurance and would have been responsible for my own transportation costs. Thanks again for your input.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12856
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear starlight,

"The issue is the CLAIM to be an equal opportunity employer, which presumably means that age is not a consideration. Why not just call a spade a spade: we prefer people who are not over ??? 55? 65?? 75?? whatever."

Why not - because they're a US non-profit, headquartered in Washington, D.C., which means they have to pay "lip-service" to non-discrimination requirements.
As a geezer myself (67,) I can empathize. However, as you probably are already aware, the same sort of thing goes on within the USA. When they turn down a person for a job here because of age, they simply cite another, manufactured reason for not offering her/him the job.

Can you fight that? Sure, if you're willing to hire a lawyer, spend a lot of money, and take your chance in court. Most aren't eager to go through all that.

"An employee bringing an age-discrimination lawsuit against his employer must prove that age was the determining factor in the demotion or firing, the Supreme Court held today in a 6-3 ruling.

Plaintiff Jack Gross, 54, sued his employer, FBL Financial Group, Inc., after FBL demoted him and gave his old position to a younger employee. Gross brought his action under the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA), which makes it unlawful for an employer to take adverse actions against an employee “because of such individual’s age.”

Over FBL’s objections, the judge instructed the jury that if Gross proved his age played any part in the decision to demote him, the burden would shift to FBL to prove it would have demoted him regardless of his age. The jury returned a verdict for Gross, awarding him over $46,000 in lost compensation.

Today the Supreme Court vacated that verdict, finding that the judge had improperly instructed the jury.

In an ADEA disparate-treatment claim, the plaintiff has the burden of proving, by a preponderance of the evidence, that age was the “but-for” cause — that is, the determining factor — of the employer’s decision.

Lower courts were inappropriately applying Title VII precedent to this ADEA action, the Court found. Title VII prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex or national origin. But unlike Title VII, the burden of proof in ADEA age-discrimination claims “does not shift to the employer to show that it would have taken the action regardless of age, even when a plaintiff has produced some evidence that age was one motivating factor in that decision,” Justice Clarence Thomas wrote for the majority.

The case was Gross v. FBL Financial Services, Inc., July, 2009."

Regards,
John
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16121
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starlight... I posted before it was edited, so that is how I knew. Laughing It really wasn't ESP.

Johnslat is right. AMIDEAST must pay lip service to the US law in their ads because of their status in the US. Thus for years, they had to accept applications from women for a military contract in the UAE which didn't and wouldn't hire women. They are not allowed to point out the reality that they are hiring for countries that have different hiring laws. They even had to interview some of them who pushed the issue. All very very silly...

Life in Cairo is very difficult... it was fun when I was in my 30s and 40s, but I worked a semester when I was in my 50s... and it convinced me that even though I was in good health, it was no longer much fun to carry my groceries up 10 floors when the elevator was broken... again. (actually it went out of service two weeks after I moved in when someone fell down the elevator shaft... and wasn't fixed three months later when I left)

We in our 60s may be fit and functional for a job in the Gulf where life is pretty easy, but not for a place like Cairo... sadly... But, it may not have been your age at all. They don't hire that many teachers and they may have had someone apply with extensive Middle East experience who just trumped your credentials.

VS
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starlight



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject: AMIDEAST -- Age discrimination Reply with quote

Hi John. Thanks so much for your input. Yep, I know all about the old lip service trip. It's the same line of rubbish in the UK and in Canada. I suppose it's the hypocrisy of it all that gets to me more than anything else. If it weren't age, then it would be gender or colour or sexual preference or something else. Unfortunately, there are very few opportunities to vent the frustration and rage that arises from such hypocrisy. Anti-discriminatory laws are on the books; easy to put on the books and 'politically correct' to do so. But attitudes take generations to change. Notwithstanding what other people say (e.g., I know many people of your age or older who are teaching at school A or B or C or AMIDEAST... of course, there ARE exceptions, but most people look to the rule rather than to the exception), age discrimination DOES exist and, in my view, it DOES exist at AMIDEAST. I'm sorry if that offends AMIDEAST supporters, but that is my opinion based on my correspondence with them (which has been appropriately edited by the moderator -- thank you Smile ). On the other hand, and according to my email from AMIDEAST, the average age of their teachers is 25 -- 35, so one COULD argue that anyone of 'mature years' would be nuts to want to work with a group of teeny boppers anyway. Maybe that's 'reverse discrimination'. Very Happy Thanks again.
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starlight



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: AMIDEAST -- age discrimination Reply with quote

Hi VS. It's taken me 5 minutes to stop laughing at your description. Thanks for putting a smile of my aging face! Very Happy
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Cairoteach



Joined: 06 Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Maadi

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about age discrimination with Amideast. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. It could be the existing teachers are young and many of the new hires are people they hang out with and end up recommending.

Generally, Amideast is a reputable employer of ESL teachers.

But, because of questionable decisions made (from above the local office), morale has bottomed out since the revolution. I know several Amideast people and others in the “development, ESL, education, training, NGO” community who are scratching their heads and saying “WTF” regarding Amideast. Most institutions here are seeking continuity of leadership and loyalty at this time. Plus they seemed to be shifting their focus from service to selling ETS tests.

I think that as an ESL teacher you’ll be on the periphery of it all. Try to work in Alex. Also, as a local-hire your job will be much more stable than if you are hired and brought in from the US.
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shanchey



Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:07 pm    Post subject: Teaching in Egypt Reply with quote

Anyone considering an offer of employment in Egypt needs to consider changing visa requirements there. Many employers, including AMIDEAST, do not sponsor teachers for residence visas or work permits. Teachers are "independent contractors". like adjuncts in the U.S. Until recently, foreigners were able to live indefinitely in Egypt on tourist visas renewable annually, with no questions asked. Recently long-time residents are being told that they will have to renew their tourist visas monthly. Some fear that foreigners will begin to have to leave the country and return for a new, single entry, one-month visa. Besides it is illegal to work in Egypt while on a tourist visa, so it could be more complicated still.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16121
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello shanchey... Thanks for the information, but that is bad news. We both know people (likely many of the same people) who have been there for 20 or 30 or 40 years on a tourist visa. Cool I suppose that it couldn't last forever...

Is this something that started under the Mubarak regime or since his departure? This will certainly complicate things for all of the smaller schools who hire teachers but never get around to an actual... work visa.

VS
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RowanPike1



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to work at Amideast in Cairo. The pay is low, and the work environment is very political. This extends even to getting assigned classes each term; what I'm saying is, you have to kiss backside to get much work there. Also, last I heard, the current country manager was an Egyptian, who quite ironically, does not like to hire Americans, wanting to hold jobs for Egyptians.
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