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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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 Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:28 am Post subject: |
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I see that everyone thinks I am being less than truthful. Meh. I can only shrug.
I have attended 6 get togethers since I arrived 2+ weeks ago. 1 was for FT holidays, 1 was for a teacher goodbye and 4 were for my arrival. The Directors wanted to take me out to lunch, so they did 2 times and I ate out with office staff twice to discuss various matters. Oh, and we had an Xmas brunch at an American Buffet in town. 7. The Directors were there then also, but not for me per se. One Director and his wife came over to my house last night to make sure I was properly happy and settled.
That is just how it has been here this month. Food, meals, all the time with Directors and staff. I hope it slows down now that I am settled in. They can all eat me under the table!
The portions are truly surprising. Huge, enormous spreads of 10+ courses. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Dude, I don't know what you're teaching but lets be honest here. If you're teaching Kinders as most new FT's end up doing, you'll need more food during the day to keep your energy up. My last position I had 5 classes a day each 1.5 hrs each with 30 screaming children (and parents watching in the room). One meal for 5rmb wouldn't keep me going. I'd need a decent breakfast, a lunch, a dinner, and then "something" in the evening. Even eating in the subsidized canteen with its tasteless stewed (and waiting for hours) food, I'd rack up more than 5 rmb easily. Never mind the need for a few bottles of tea each costing 1.5 or 2 rmb each.
For myself, there was times towards the end of the month where I had roughly 20-30 rmb to last the days until payday, and they were a serious struggle.
I was in Xi'an btw. 5000 rmb a month, and that's ok for there. But I can't imagine being able to live in China for less unless you have savings you've brought over with you, to supplement your income.
If you're able to live on less, then great for you. I for one can't do it. Internet costs, bar costs, nightclub costs, the odd taxi, good (chinese) food, going on dates, etc all rack up costs which eat heavily into the 5000 I had.
Perhaps you're Chinese? Cause I've never known any westerner that could adapt to living under such a low amount of money. All that started with such low amounts ended up leaving for other work within a month or two.. |
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zootown
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| norwalkesl wrote: |
| Quote: |
| zootown wrote: |
| norwalkesl wrote: |
Do you save enough to go on your 2 month holidays?
What do you do on the other five days a week off? Apart from spending very little money. |
I agree with CJD. I spend 250 RMB to 500 RMB a month. Travel is the only other large expense. I am either planning lessons, teaching, socializing with assistants and teachers, or learning Mandarin. I don't smoke, drink, go out clubbing, and have no expensive habits. This allows for more than enough to save up for summer and winter break. Trains in China are very cheap, and hotels are cheap if one looks around. |
What a boring life you live.Scrimping and saving.
Whats the point.
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One mans meat is another mans poison. I don't consider my life to be scrimping and saving. It is just my normal enjoyable life. I have also "lived a non-boring life" as you might refer to it, and no longer enjoy such pursuits.
I don't want to accumulate stuff, I eat little, I don't smoke, I drink once a month.
I consider the clubbing, drinking and smoking that some expat FT's enjoy to be a stupid waste of time. Why be inside a bar when one can be on a mountain ridge, or speaking a new language with new friends one made over a 5RMB meal, or taking the hard sleeper and making new friends?
I don't suppose you have noticed that very nice expensive hotels are designed to isolate the occupants in silence, that they are built for stressed-out business travelers who wish to be left alone? I do not wish to be left alone, thus I stay in cheap hotels, hostels or on a friends couch. I meet more people, I make more friends, and I am happier.
I could stay in the Westin on the harbour in Vancouver and watch the sailplanes land but then I would meet no one, and eat lunch for $30CDN alone, reading the FT, like the other 6 people in the restaurant. A waste of $500.
No thanks.
Perhaps you should learn how to enjoy life without the need to spend money. Hiking is free and being at 3500 meters is neither boring nor scrimping.
| Quote: |
| Would you not be better working in your home country and save your money which you seem to be able to do really well.No reason you can't do it in your home country and then come and travel China for X amount of time. |
You assume I prefer life in my home country.
Money isn't everything my friend. I have earned 6-figures USA and it isn't worth it. The price is too high and the savings garnered are not worth the lowered quality of life. |
Hiking isn't free the clothing and equipment is quite expensive and if you are up around 3500 mtrs you want good gear.
The hiking gear I bought in China was neither of good quality or cheap.I wouldn't trust it if I got caught out in a storm at those elevations.
How do you get to the remote hiking places in China that are far from the maddening crowds.
That ain't cheap.Hard seat trains never again for me.You know you can meet people in soft seat too
If you made a 6-figure sum in the USA why do you need to work for such a paltry amount in China.
Sounds like you don't need to teach.Why not just travel or stay put in one town/city to learn the language meet the people. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, reading between the lines, I think someone is just trying to stir the (hot)pot a bit, get people riled up. Back to the original OP, it seems to be the majority consensus that, no, surviving on 3500 is not a good option. Do-able? Perhaps, but you can and should find better pay. |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| cormac wrote: |
Dude, I don't know what you're teaching but lets be honest here. Internet costs, bar costs, nightclub costs, the odd taxi, good (chinese) food, going on dates, etc all rack up costs which eat heavily into the 5000 I had.
Perhaps you're Chinese? Cause I've never known any westerner that could adapt to living under such a low amount of money. All that started with such low amounts ended up leaving for other work within a month or two.. |
I am American and Caucasian, certainly no Asian blood in my family.
| Quote: |
| Internet costs, bar costs, nightclub costs, the odd taxi, good (chinese) food, |
None of those expenses are in my budget. The Internet is paid for with my house, I don't go to bars or nightclubs, the town is small and taxis are not required that often, and as I have posted good Chinese food is 5RMB.
| cormac wrote: |
| Dude, I don't know what you're teaching but lets be honest here. If you're teaching Kinders as most new FT's end up doing, you'll need more food during the day to keep your energy up. My last position I had 5 classes a day each 1.5 hrs each with 30 screaming children (and parents watching in the room). One meal for 5rmb wouldn't keep me going. I'd need a decent breakfast, a lunch, a dinner, and then "something" in the evening. Even eating in the subsidized canteen with its tasteless stewed (and waiting for hours) food, I'd rack up more than 5 rmb easily. Never mind the need for a few bottles of tea each costing 1.5 or 2 rmb each. |
Lunch is as I describe. A big steaming bowl of stew with a pot of red tea. 5 RMB. I drink several mugs of green tea throughout the day.
I do not need to eat a great deal of food. I am 51 and my metabolism has slowed greatly in the past 10 years.
You all are aware of the fact that not everyone in ESL is like you, 25, and goes out to nightclubs, yes? You are aware of the fact that many people do not do the things that you do for recreation, I sincerely hope? Your lifestyle is not the standard by which all others are to be measured.
You need 4 meals. I do not. I simply do not understand this projection issue that so many here have. For a group of multi-lingual international teachers with extensive traveling experience many people here are very closed minded if someone is not like them, allude that I am lying, or dismiss my posts as fiction out of hand.
Very interesting, to say the least. Puts to rest the myth of the open-minded and tolerant, educated young ESL teacher backpacking and traveling.
Just like in the US and West, anything purchased in a bottle, bag or box will be expensive processed junk. Thus I don't like to drink bottled teas with all the sugar. Water does me fine, or I brew some hot water and walk with the China tea mug to my classes to sooth my sore throat.
Look, I learned decades ago that trying to convince someone who is convinced they are right that it is an exercise in futility. I know what things cost in town and I know what I had to eat for lunch.
You can believe me or not.
But if new posters and the curious who wish to know about China ask, I will post my experience your protestations notwithstanding.
Cheers!
**************
"I am not young enough to know everything." -- Oscar Wilde
Last edited by norwalkesl on Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
| Well, reading between the lines, I think someone is just trying to stir the (hot)pot a bit, get people riled up. |
This is factually incorrect. If my description of my life riles you up, then look within. |
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zootown
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Norwalkesi I don't think people here are doubting that you can live on a 5rmb meal.
I think it is the fact that maybe other people will think that living in China is cheap and living on 5 rmb is the norm.It ain't.
You maybe will have the misfortune to find out why they are 5rmb meals.
As the Chinese teachers told me "Don't eat those cheap 3-5rmb meals you will get sick" I eventually did get sick and now avoid those places like the plague.
Here is a tip all those people who took you out for meals will be expecting you to return the favor and they will bring along all there friends and/or family along to meet you(you have to pay this time. If you ask someone out you have to pay).If you don't ask them they will not think highly of you.They will never tell you this though.
If you take them to a cheap restaurant you will lose face big time. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't rile me up in the least - - I could care less about you or your professed lifestyle. I'm more concerned about a newbie entering threads such as these and getting misinformation about the topic at hand. I'm happy you can get your fill on 5 rmb a day (  ) - - but as the previous poster just said, it's not the norm. I too don't drink beer or pay for internet and more often than not ride the bus than take a taxi. But I enjoy my food and that takes up a good chunk of income, whether I'm eating out or shopping and cooking at home. From following this thread beginning to here, most seem to be in the same frame of mine. Enjoy your stew. |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| zootown wrote: |
As the Chinese teachers told me "Don't eat those cheap 3-5rmb meals you will get sick" I eventually did get sick and now avoid those places like the plague.
Here is a tip all those people who took you out for meals will be expecting you to return the favor and they will bring along all there friends and/or family along to meet you(you have to pay this time. If you ask someone out you have to pay).If you don't ask them they will not think highly of you.They will never tell you this though.
If you take them to a cheap restaurant you will lose face big time. |
The expensive restaurant in town in 20 RMB for a massive hot pot. This town is cheap to live in. Of course I know of the Chinese dining traditions, and that if I ask someone I pay. So far everyone flatly refuses my offers to pay. Perhaps next time the Directors are in town I will be paying the massive 300RMB bill. Perhaps because this was all on the company account the tradition will not strictly apply.
I lived in Mexico for a few months and I have had my share of stomach ailments, so I do not get gi issues anymore that most travelers encounter. Now if this an issue with chemicals or pollutants in the food and water, yes I can see where at some point I would tire of it and want to cook food at home with filtered water only. That would be even cheaper, though...hopefully someone can teach me to cook Chinese cuisine.
Anyhow I have a photo in my cell of my 5 RMB lunch. As soon as I get some MOTO software on this PC I will upload a link to a photo of the meal in a bowl about 18-19 cm in diameter.
Cheers and healthy hale and hearty Chinese meals to all! |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| norwalkesl wrote: |
| I am American and Caucasian, certainly no Asian blood in my family. |
No slight intended. Simply that the only people I know that could live on such a budget in China are the Chinese themselves who have lived with such amounts while growing up. Most westerners I find are used to having more disposable cash to play with.
| Quote: |
| None of those expenses are in my budget. The Internet is paid for with my house, I don't go to bars or nightclubs, the town is small and taxis are not required that often, and as I have posted good Chinese food is 5RMB. |
Grand. You live a different life.
| cormac wrote: |
Lunch is as I describe. A big steaming bowl of stew with a pot of red tea. 5 RMB. I drink several mugs of green tea throughout the day.
I do not need to eat a great deal of food. I am 51 and my metabolism has slowed greatly in the past 10 years.
You all are aware of the fact that not everyone in ESL is like you, 25, and goes out to nightclubs, yes? You are aware of the fact that many people do not do the things that you do for recreation, I sincerely hope? Your lifestyle is not the standard by which all others are to be measured. |
Flip side. You do realise that most of the teachers that are coming over and read this forum are from the ages of 20 - 35.. sure some are older, but the majority are young enough that they want a lifestyle that they can enjoy. Usually, posters over 40 are able to settle down to a quieter lifestyle but they declare their age.
The simple fact of life in China for those under 35 is that most will want to do what I suggested. Even if its going to a club once a week, that will eat into the funds they receive.
| Quote: |
| You need 4 meals. I do not. I simply do not understand this projection issue that so many here have. For a group of multi-lingual international teachers with extensive traveling experience many people here are very closed minded if someone is not like them, allude that I am lying, or dismiss my posts as fiction out of hand. |
The projection issue is about age. Most of us are younger than you and need more to eat. Simple.
And I'm 32.. well traveled and I still love Asian clubs. I don't drink much but I do love to socialise in those sort of areas.
| Quote: |
| Very interesting, to say the least. Puts to rest the myth of the open-minded and tolerant, educated young ESL teacher backpacking and traveling. |
Hardly.
| Quote: |
Look, I learned decades ago that trying to convince someone who is convinced they are right that it is an exercise in futility. I know what things cost in town and I know what I had to eat for lunch.
You can believe me or not.
But if new posters and the curious who wish to know about China ask, I will post my experience your protestations notwithstanding.
Cheers! |
No problem there. Help away. But I think its important that you make the distinction that you're in your 50's. That has a HUGE impact on the activities you're interested in, the amount of food you eat, etc.
Step back for a second and read your post as if you were 20 and coming to China for the first time, without knowing your age... Do you think it would be misleading? (I'm sure you can remember what you liked to do at 20?) |
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zootown
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| norwalkesl wrote: |
| zootown wrote: |
As the Chinese teachers told me "Don't eat those cheap 3-5rmb meals you will get sick" I eventually did get sick and now avoid those places like the plague.
Here is a tip all those people who took you out for meals will be expecting you to return the favor and they will bring along all there friends and/or family along to meet you(you have to pay this time. If you ask someone out you have to pay).If you don't ask them they will not think highly of you.They will never tell you this though.
If you take them to a cheap restaurant you will lose face big time. |
The expensive restaurant in town in 20 RMB for a massive hot pot. This town is cheap to live in. Of course I know of the Chinese dining traditions, and that if I ask someone I pay. So far everyone flatly refuses my offers to pay. Perhaps next time the Directors are in town I will be paying the massive 300RMB bill. Perhaps because this was all on the company account the tradition will not strictly apply.
I lived in Mexico for a few months and I have had my share of stomach ailments, so I do not get gi issues anymore that most travelers encounter. Now if this an issue with chemicals or pollutants in the food and water, yes I can see where at some point I would tire of it and want to cook food at home with filtered water only. That would be even cheaper, though...hopefully someone can teach me to cook Chinese cuisine.
Anyhow I have a photo in my cell of my 5 RMB lunch. As soon as I get some MOTO software on this PC I will upload a link to a photo of the meal in a bowl about 18-19 cm in diameter.
Cheers and healthy hale and hearty Chinese meals to all! |
Hey you are so far out of the loop of Chinese culture and traditions.Go back to Mexico at least you will have half a chance there.
Here's another heads up of course they are going to decline your offer to dinner and even ohh forget it your the expert.
and someone was paying you a six figure sum in America. |
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mat chen
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 494
Location: xiangtan hunan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| My university still has volunteers working for less than this (700rmb). They have over 30,000 students paying 12,000 per term. I negotiated with them for 4,500 and then when they roled my salary back I called the recruiter and they told me that the school had said they only paid me 3,500. This was the fee the school paid the recruiter, one months salary. So this meant 1,000 in the FAO pocket. With 20 new teachers every term it is not a bad sum to fill your pockets with. The rub is as you know, I can't tell you the name and place of the school because I still have money coming to me. |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Dinner food from street stalls:
Hotdog: 1.5 RMB
Grilled curly fries style tofu, spicey: 1 RMB
Toasted bread with spicey tofu paste in between two pieces: 1 RMB
2 English Muffin-ish pieces of homemade bread, warm, freshly grilled: 1 RMB
Total cost 4.5 RMB. |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| zootown wrote: |
Hey you are so far out of the loop of Chinese culture and traditions.Go back to Mexico at least you will have half a chance there.
Here's another heads up of course they are going to decline your offer to dinner and even ohh forget it your the expert. |
I am not an expert. I am a quick learner and very observant and in tune. In a week I will know more, and in a year even more. After the third or fourth invite I am sure they will relent if I persist. Likely will be taking the assistants out to dinner with the other FT on campus in a week or two. It's just good business. The assistants tell me I can get a loan from the FAO office to tide me over. Apparently most FT's show up with not a dime in their pockets. Fortunately I am not in that situation. But they considered it normal and brought it up unbidden.
| cormac wrote: |
| Step back for a second and read your post as if you were 20 and coming to China for the first time, without knowing your age... Do you think it would be misleading? (I'm sure you can remember what you liked to do at 20?) |
It is not misleading. Your assumptions are your responsibility. You should do the same and read your posts from the pov of a 50 year old. Some call me a liar and trouble maker, all because you assume everyone is like you. I know that everyone is not like me, yet I can only post my own experience and let you read it or not. You need more meals, I need fewer. Terrific! Both pov's are valid.
Honestly I am at a loss to explain attitudes such as yours, zootowns and kevs.
Good Luck and Karma to all! |
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A'Moo
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: a supermarket that sells cheese
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| norwalkesl wrote: |
Dinner food from street stalls:
Hotdog: 1.5 RMB
Grilled curly fries style tofu, spicey: 1 RMB
Toasted bread with spicey tofu paste in between two pieces: 1 RMB
2 English Muffin-ish pieces of homemade bread, warm, freshly grilled: 1 RMB
Total cost 4.5 RMB. |
How much was the veggie dog with swiss and sauerkraut? And a bottle of Perrier? |
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