Job Discussion Forums

[kidkanada]

Just looking for some opions on these two cities. Im trying to determine where i will go to look for work. Like regarding:

Avalablity of jobs
pay of jobs
living conditions
transportation

You know, all that stuff. Thanks

[Harry Haller]

Last fall I spent some time in Hanoi simply visiting, but I have never been to Ho Chi Minh, so I can offer no direct personal comparison. However, I felt Hanoi a very livable city--not a vast, choked metropolis like Bangkok and not a village masquerading as a city like Phnom Penh. (Though I very much like both Bangkok and Phnom Penh for what they are.) I met many travelers in Hanoi who had come up from Ho Chi Minh, and not one of them preferred Ho Chi Minh to Hanoi. Of course living in a place is not the same as working there. I did not find the climate at that time oppressive in any way, and the people were pleasant and not tiresomely curious about foreigners. Far too many motorbikes for my taste, but I was told that Ho Chi Minh made the streets of Hanoi look empty. That would decide it for me.

[tiggerpoo]

It is not difficult to find work in HCMC teaching English. There are many schools that don't require any certificates or a degree. Many times experience is more valuable than certificates. However you will be limited in pay and your choices of who and when you teach. Without any certificates and limited experience you should expect 10 -12 USD/hour, and many times working with children in the evenings and weekends. Schools that require some sort of CELTA or TOEFL pay between 12-18 USD/hour depending on experience. A few schools do require a degree as well as CELTA or TOEFL and you can expect better working hours and from 15-18 USD/hour. Most school offer 20-25 hours a week. You don't need any special visa to teach, just a tourist, but a few schools will require you to get a work permit if you decide to work long term. The best way to find work is once you arrive, start looking up English schools and contact them both by phone and in person. Many schools are hiring year round. You might have to wait a few weeks for positions to open up or take a job you might not like before getting something more permanent or more to your liking.

Living conditions are up to western standard and readily available. See discussion forum 'housing' for more information.

There are a few methods of transport in HCMC. 1. you can rent/buy a motorbike if you dare venture to drive on the streets. Yes, it can be overwhelming when you first look at the traffic but the Vietnamese have an unwritten system that seems to keep traffic moving. The pollution is shocking!! Expect to pay 40-60 USD/month to rent and 300-7000USD to buy. You can buy a decent bike from 800 - 2000 USD but there will be problems registering the bike as foreigner aren't allowed to register a bike unless you have a residency permit, which takes some time to get; 6-12 months. You can have a Vietnamese friend buy the bike for you but you need to trust that person as they will own your bike. My advice, don't have a girlfriend/boyfriend do it. 2. you can take taxis or motorbike taxis. Many expats take this option as it is reliable and cheap. Motorbike taxis are easy to find and cost between 5000-7000 VND (15000 VND equals 1 USD) to anywhere you want to go. Taxis start at just under 1 USD. Usually you won't pay more than 3 USD to where you want to go. They are comfortable, air-conditioned and usually the driver can speak some English. 3. you can take public transportation. I've never done it but it is cheap 2000 VND and the government is working hard to improve it.

I feel that HCMC is better. The people seem friendlier, the weather is more consistent (sunny and warm) and there is more to do. This is my opinion, you might have different needs and perspectives. The traffic is bad but Hanoi's traffic is just as bad or even worse. Just around Hoan Kim Lake it's limited because the government restricts traffic, once you get outside the center it jam packed. But then again, you might not ever go outside the center. If you're visiting, Hanoi is a better city. It's greener and has better architecture but for living long term your needs change and you might think differently.

[Guest]

Unlike Harry, I spent some time living in Saigon, and not Hanoi.

I think the climate in Hanoi would be much nices - you actually get cooler months there - unlike Saigon.

I was offered $10 U.S. per hour to teach in H.C.M.C. without a Degree, without qualifications and without experience. I heard that you can get up to $17 U.S. per hour with those things.

It only costs you around $10 U.S. per night for a decent apartment, so therefore, if you wish, you can work about 3 hours per day and live quite well.

Hanoi is less crowded and has less tourists also, from what I can gather.

Weather wise, Hanoi is where I would go - if I were to leave China, which I am not.

Best of luck

[elcomputo]

Rhonda,

Just out of curiosity, why would you not leave China for Vietnam? I ask because I have reasons to consider both places.

[Guest]

Even though I loved the people in Vietnam, I just could not seem to settle down there. There is less support (work wise) and you have to negotiate the traffic in the heat and at my age this was also a problem.

Here in China, I live on the School grounds, I get four seasons and I get a lot of support. I also only have to work 10 hours per week.

But, the main reason I am staying here permanently is that I am now 100% committed to the local Orphans. There are 67 of them and I have been visiting them and taking them presents every week now for 8 months. There is no way I can ever leave them.

I have told my family and friends that I am going to work here for another 3 years and then retire close to the Orphanage.

[elcomputo]

Rhonda,

Thanks again for the continuing information.

My situation is this: I am in contact with a former resident (another gringo) of the town I'm now living in: San Miguel de Allende, in Mexico. He is now living in Hanoi. I think he is pretty starved for conversation and companionship with another American, and he wants me to come over there. There are, he says, lots of teaching opportunities.

The advantage to me would be that I would have somebody to pave the way for me. A disadvantage is that the fellow is 82 years old with a diagnosed case of prostate cancer which he is not treating. I'm not sure how long my support would be available there.

Meanwhile, there is a woman in Nanning with whom I have been corresponding. She would like me to come there. Her English is not very good (she's now studying the language in addition to working full time and raising a son), and she seems obsessed with the idea of snagging a foreign husband -- preferably me. Though I'm fairly easy-going, and I'm no more opposed to an "arranged marriage" than to a regular one, I can see the many possible downsides of this idea.

Besides, as you pointed out, the summer weather in Nanning can be pretty beastly. I am not a big fan of heat and humidity.

I am 65 years old and barely surviving on Social Security. I came to Mexico to cut down on my expenses, but costs here are not much lower than they would be in, say, Texas. I still have to go to San Antonio, a 15-hour bus trip one way, to get (very poor) medical services at the Veterans Affairs hospital there. I am insulin-dependent and take a number of medications to lower my high blood pressure. I'm also dependent upon anti-depressive drugs to deal with a problem of low energy.

Working 10 hours a week sounds terrific to me. Even 20 hours sounds terrific. I hold a Ph.D. in Education and have a Master's in Communications, so I think I've got the credentials to teach English to students who already know some English. I spent a year in Korea with the Army, so I have some familiarity with the Far East. I have also been a professional photographer, and I'm now doing some cartooning work.

My main concerns would be isolation and not having access to the medications I need. And there is one other concern: I have pets -- a dog and two cats -- to whom I am very close. They are also valuable to me, not least in their ability to lower my blood pressure. I could afford to bring them with me, I think, but I don't know how well they would be received in any kind of living arrangements I would obtain over there. Leaving them behind just doesn't appear to be an option. (One benefit of going to Nanning -- the woman said she would be happy to keep the pets; she already has one dog.)

I don't know whether you have ever lived in Mexico, but it can be very nice here. The weather is terrific, and the people are easier to get along with than people in the USA. I speak some (but not enough) Spanish -- just enough to get by. The main problem for me is the cost. I consume most of my Social Security monthly checks, with nothing left over for emergencies. Obtaining jobs teaching English or tutoring here is not easy. You pretty much have to be located in a big city, and then what they pay -- less than $10 an hour, strictly for face-to-face time -- is not sufficient to make up for the added cost of living in the city.

Moreover, Mexicans are generally not all that interested in learning English, surprisingly enough. There is some hostility toward the United States and insufficient drive to want to get NAFTA-related jobs. The kids whose parents can afford to send them to schools where English is taught are largely spoiled, over-privileged, indolent slackers with no interest in learning anything (at least, that is what I have been told by a number of teachers).

So, if I want to gain some added income in TEFL, I don't believe I'm going to get it in Mexico. I have considered Korea and Japan as they seem to have the best compensation. HOwever, I have spoken with a woman who taught in Japan, and I don't think I could deal with the age discrimination there or with the fact that it appears necessary to actually go there and track down jobs rather than arrange them from here -- too expensive a proposition.

Korea is attractive because of the demand for teachers and the fact they will actually front the expense of flying there. But I have been told by another party in China that the Koreans extract a pint of blood for every extra huan they pay out. The workloads are heavy. Plus, there is a good deal of anti-Americanism and general unfriendliness there, largely due to their experience of a half-century of having American troops stationed there.

So, China sounds like my best alternative: good working conditions, largely friendly people, and a very interesting country to explore. At a larger school, such as a university, there would be other English-speakers for support.

I am looking to make a move some time between January and June of 2005. I have made too many hasty decisions in my life, and I want to mull this one over carefully.

I am very appreciative of any feedback you can give me.

Oh, yes, I should mention, too, that I did get a call from QuongXi University in Nanning. They would like to hire me, pending a statement from a medical doctor here that I am up to the job. However, they offered only 6500 huan/month for working a 40-hour schedule. I thought that, for a PhD, that was simply too little and turned it down. Others have told me I should probably get at least 8000 huan, and that they, themselves, are getting 12,000 huan because they were already in-country and were thus closer to the better opportunities.

Martin

[Guest]

Martin

I know nothing about the situation of bringing pets here to China. I only know that it would not be possible in this Boarding School as I share the kitchen and laundry with two other teachers and there is no-where outside where the animals could go. I would think this is going to be your MAIN HURDLE.

I am 57 now and have one lung. I became ill on the 20th January and was in hospital in Shanghai for a total of 19 nights - much to the horror of my Australian Insurance company who wanted me to return to Australia. I told them "only in a box". I lost 16 KILOS during the 11 weeks I was sick. I BELIEVE, but I am not 100% sure, that I ate DOG in January and got a Chronic pelvic infection. Anyway, the point I am trying to make if that I would much rather be ill in China and even die in China than in Australia. I AM NOT LEAVING.

I intend working here for 3 years and then retiring in a rented unit close to the Orphanage where the 67 children now depend on me.

I wish you luck. The money in China is not as good as Japan etc. but I think the hours are easier. I only get 3,500 per month but I can make it stretch to presents every Sunday for the children, a Birthday cake and present each year for the 67 children, movies and K.F.C. for the children and 400 Christmas presents - so the money goes a long way. It is hard, but it is the most worthwhile thing I have ever done in my life.

[James_T_Kirk]

Hi Martin,