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BrentBlack · Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 96 Location: Quan 3, Saigon

I am beginning to apply to CELTA programs all over the world, and each suggests using a basic grammar book to help with the tasks on the application. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
BB

Dedicated · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK

Hello BrentBlack,

I'm a CELTA trainer and I usually put the following grammar books on the list for students to familiarise themselves with :

*Oxford Learner's Grammar by John Eastwood (Oxford Univ. Press)
*The Good Grammar Book by M.Swan and C. Walter (Oxford Univ. Press)
*How English works by M.Swan and C.Walter (Oxford Univ. Press)
*A Practical English Grammar by Thomson and Martinet (Oxford Univ.Press
*English Grammar in Use by Raymond Murphy (Oxford Univ. Press)
* Practical English Usage by ?? (which is more like a dictionary with explanations of over 600 problem points arranged alphabetically).

The last one on this list is often used by some centres to set the questions on the application form.

Most of the above can be easily/cheaply bought second-hand from Amazon.

Good luck on your course!

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:52 am Post subject:

Hi BB. The "problem" (if I can be forgiven for saying so Smile

) with all the books that Dedicated has mentioned is that, with the exception of the Thomson & Martinet (which is probably a bit dry for most tastes) and (Swan's) Practical English Usage (which as Dedicated points out is more an A-Z dictionary of selected points rather than a read-throughable grammar proper) they are all mainly student exercise books rather than very comprehensive references.

Now there is nothing wrong with looking at what non-native students apparently like to study, and these sorts of exercise books can be a quick way to get an overview of a lot of essential points, but if this is as far as you go then your knowledge and thinking will probably remain quite patchy even after having completed the CELTA (which doesn't to be honest require a particularly good knowledge of grammar).

Swan himself in the Introduction to the Second edition of PEU states:

Dedicated · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK

Hi fluffyhamster,

Whilst I don't dispute what you have said about grammar books, the original request of BB was

BrentBlack · Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 96 Location: Quan 3, Saigon

Thanks guys,

I will look into both of your suggestions.

BB

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject:

Heh, you're welcome, BB.

Sure Dedicated, the books you suggested won't be inadequate for BB's initial/short-term purposes, and trainees do sometimes report on these forums that the likes of Murphy proved "more helpful" than even Swan's "accessible" A-Z say in "getting them through" CELTA tasks. Cool

I still think it is a shame however that developing a more thorough (explicit, formal) knowledge of grammar is felt to be something that isn't necessary for base (versus saying 'basic', 'initial' etc - as if the possibility of further training excuses the potential inadequacies of earlier) certificate purposes, but then, I suppose if there were never any "urgent requests" on these forums regarding what is quite often ultimately really rather basic grammar points, it would be a somewhat duller place! Smile

NYCESOL11211 · Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 75

Fundamentals of English Grammar by Betty Azar. Pearson Longman.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:30 am Post subject:

Hmm, Azar...a search for 'Azar AND corpus' will unearth two threads that discuss the quality of her examples (and by extension her approach - sure, you can learn a fair bit about 'grammar' from more or less invented sentences, but you won't then be learning as much about the real-world language in all its appreciably richer detail).