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BrentBlack
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 96 Location: Quan 3, Saigon
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: Best grammar book or books for CELTA application tasks? |
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I am beginning to apply to CELTA programs all over the world, and each suggests using a basic grammar book to help with the tasks on the application. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
BB |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: Grammar Books |
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Hello BrentBlack,
I'm a CELTA trainer and I usually put the following grammar books on the list for students to familiarise themselves with :
*Oxford Learner's Grammar by John Eastwood (Oxford Univ. Press)
*The Good Grammar Book by M.Swan and C. Walter (Oxford Univ. Press)
*How English works by M.Swan and C.Walter (Oxford Univ. Press)
*A Practical English Grammar by Thomson and Martinet (Oxford Univ.Press
*English Grammar in Use by Raymond Murphy (Oxford Univ. Press)
* Practical English Usage by ?? (which is more like a dictionary with explanations of over 600 problem points arranged alphabetically).
The last one on this list is often used by some centres to set the questions on the application form.
Most of the above can be easily/cheaply bought second-hand from Amazon.
Good luck on your course! |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 3292 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Hi BB. The "problem" (if I can be forgiven for saying so ) with all the books that Dedicated has mentioned is that, with the exception of the Thomson & Martinet (which is probably a bit dry for most tastes) and (Swan's) Practical English Usage (which as Dedicated points out is more an A-Z dictionary of selected points rather than a read-throughable grammar proper) they are all mainly student exercise books rather than very comprehensive references.
Now there is nothing wrong with looking at what non-native students apparently like to study, and these sorts of exercise books can be a quick way to get an overview of a lot of essential points, but if this is as far as you go then your knowledge and thinking will probably remain quite patchy even after having completed the CELTA (which doesn't to be honest require a particularly good knowledge of grammar).
Swan himself in the Introduction to the Second edition of PEU states:
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Other reference books
This book gives explanations of individual points of usage, but does not show how the separate points 'fit together'. For a systematically organized account of the whole of English grammar, students should consult a book such as A Student's Grammar of the English Language, by Greenbaum and Quirk (Longman), ...or the Oxford Guide to English Grammar, by John Eastwood. |
This "full-size" Eastwood would IMHO be a better investment than his Learner's Grammar, and nicely complement or indeed completely substitute for Swan; then, there is the excellent COBUILD English Grammar - very functional, and with a comparative wealth of 'lexicogrammatical' detail (I've actually mentioned quite a few grammar books on these forums over the years, and sometimes quoted from them - try searching?). But ultimately I don't think you can beat considering completing a thorough, 'formal' grammar course such as Leech et al's English Grammar for Today (that gets into "parsing" and straightforward diagramming of sentences, clauses etc), or Huddleston & Pullum's A Student's Grammar of English (slightly more formal, and slightly more theoretical-technical/less mainstream than the Leech et al), as the knowledge either would impart would enable you to use really any other grammar book with a lot more confidence, and prepare you not so much for the "demands" of the CELTA course but the job and career proper beyond (I mean, it's perhaps worth really thinking ahead when you've actually still got the extra time to do so!).
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:30 pm Post subject: Grammar books |
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Hi fluffyhamster,
Whilst I don't dispute what you have said about grammar books, the original request of BB was
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a basic grammar book to help with tasks on the application |
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To complete the application form, the books I mentioned are perfectly adequate (and the ones recommended - we don't want to scare folk off the course!). If the OP wishes to go beyond that, and do a DELTA/MA, then yes, the ones you mentioned would be an excellent investment. |
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BrentBlack
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 96 Location: Quan 3, Saigon
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys,
I will look into both of your suggestions.
BB |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 3292 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Heh, you're welcome, BB.
Sure Dedicated, the books you suggested won't be inadequate for BB's initial/short-term purposes, and trainees do sometimes report on these forums that the likes of Murphy proved "more helpful" than even Swan's "accessible" A-Z say in "getting them through" CELTA tasks.
I still think it is a shame however that developing a more thorough (explicit, formal) knowledge of grammar is felt to be something that isn't necessary for base (versus saying 'basic', 'initial' etc - as if the possibility of further training excuses the potential inadequacies of earlier) certificate purposes, but then, I suppose if there were never any "urgent requests" on these forums regarding what is quite often ultimately really rather basic grammar points, it would be a somewhat duller place! |
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NYCESOL11211
Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 75
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Fundamentals of English Grammar by Betty Azar. Pearson Longman. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 3292 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:30 am Post subject: |
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Hmm, Azar...a search for 'Azar AND corpus' will unearth two threads that discuss the quality of her examples (and by extension her approach - sure, you can learn a fair bit about 'grammar' from more or less invented sentences, but you won't then be learning as much about the real-world language in all its appreciably richer detail). |
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