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Sexism in Morroco???
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gtidey



Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 93
Location: London Village, Christendom

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When moving to a different country you have to be like the man in the toll booth. You have to be willing to accept change.

And also you have to comprimise. Believe it or not you dont have to argue with everyone. Just let things slide and get a nice cool drink. Youre going somewhere else, it's their country, therefore you have to comprimise.

When we find a country full of argumentative attention seekers you should feel free to move there and be as loud as you want.
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SOBELLE



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the feminist,

Do you know the song that goes like this?
This land is your land
This land is my land
Stay in your land
or we won't be friend
Something like that, as a Moroccan I always found interesting how the Westerners view us. Somehow, the superiority complex makes them feel good. Growing up in Morocco and being taught by les cooperants (French teachers) "and by the way they made a good living" never tried to learn the Arabic language and never tried to understand the culture that was barbaric to them anyway!! And amazingly enough those so called civilized teachers had maids and chauffeurs that they treated like dirt. I think what we want in Morocco educated non judgmental people with no preconceived ideas, the one that respect the culture and traditions at least try to understand it, the ones that will make a difference and not try to impose their values and ideas. Someone like mother Theresa (just kidding).
Laughing
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casaoui



Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:43 pm    Post subject: preconceived ideas Reply with quote

Good luck in your search for "non judgmental people with no preconceived ideas". I've yet to meet one and that includes the Moroccans I taught.
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Africaexpert



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an American caucasian woman who lived on my own in Morocco, working as a teacher for the better part of eight years. Moroccan guys in the street will hassle you because they have nothing better to do and they know you don't have any protectors in Morocco. You will quickly learn to ignore them and develop a "don't mess with me" attitude, or you will not enjoy your stay.
Morocco is the most liberal Muslim country in the world, but you have every extreme in Morocco - from casual European to extreme Islamic. The contrasts are part of the country's mystique.
I would not mention the fact that you are atheist - saying you are Jewish or Christian will get conversation enough - but you ought not to get into religious discussions, period. Atheism is unacceptable.

wow- Sobelle - I sure hope the Egyptians don't treat you the way you treat foreigners! Please don't stereotype so much -not all foreigners are as ugly as you make them out to be - and btw, many Moroccans love being hired by foreigners because they get paid better and treated better - I've seen Moroccan people forcing their maids to sleep on the kitchen floor!
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kirez



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 29
Location: Iraq

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: morocco v turkey, which is more liberal? Reply with quote

Africaexpert, do you think Morocco is more liberal / modern than Turkey?

I've never been to Morocco but I've been to Istanbul; I've always heard Turkey is the most liberal muslim country.

I'm also curious about Indonesia; while I wouldn't expect it to be modern, I think the muslim religion is quite different there. Similarly, throughout central asia, most of the 'muslims' drink quite a bit of alcohol --- but are otherwise characteristically traditional.
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Africaexpert



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morocco and Turkey are about the same - they both have conservative rural and liberal urban elements, and they both have a lot of workers in Europe.
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Winston Bear



Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkey is far more liberal than Morocco. And whether or not you develop a thick hide, it doesn't change the fact that Moroccan men treat Moroccan women and western women shamefully.
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Africaexpert



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen Moroccan guys who treat women well and Turkish guys whow treat women like cattle. And vice-versa. Can't really say if one is worse than the other.
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moongoat



Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 16
Location: en route

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah. I am not sure if this has much to do with Islam, as opposed to secular, long-reinforced attitudes. After all, just as much gender segregation can be found in East Asia, right?
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1332
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:54 am    Post subject: Turkey wins Reply with quote

Comparing Morocco and Turkey with regard to religious conservatism is a non starter.

The entire western part of Turkey is far more liberal in terms of religion compared with Morocco. I have lived and worked in both countries.

During the month of Ramadan in Turkey, I saw many Turkish guys eating their usual meals in restaurants during Ramadan. You would never see that in Morocco!

That is just a detail, in addition to the fact that most of the Turks I taught or hung out with never went to the Mosque or professed deep faith and adherance to the Islamic values.

In Turkey I worked in places like Antalya, Ankara and Eskisehir, and there was not a 'feel' for Islam that you get in places I stayed at in Morocco.

In Morocco, as a foreigner they (the Moroccans) always bring the conversation around to Islam and the Muslim way of doing things, and they often want to try to 'convert' you. In Turkey, despite living and working there, never once did a Turk try to convert me, and come to think of it, the topic of 'Islam' was never discussed either. They, the Turks, are really secular people, from what I saw and experienced. Most of the Turks I lived with were 'Muslim' in name only. In behaviour and values, they were no different to agnostics!

My experiences.

Ghost in Korea
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 962
Location: Home

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: everyone else wins Reply with quote

ghost wrote:
they often want to try to 'convert' you.


ha ha ha I'd have loved it if they tried that one on me. To my Moroccan colleagues faces, I slagged off islam time and time again. I mean, these men boasted about going with 1000s of prostitutes and were virtual alcoholics. Iím no saint, but Iím too much of a prude to convert down to that level.
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Africaexpert



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To my Moroccan colleagues faces, I slagged off islam time and time again


I'm sure they were quite happy to see you go, Hod.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 962
Location: Home

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now now, Africasexpert, there must be one little bitty thing you don't, oops sorry, didn't like about Maroc? You're a normal balanced individual after all.
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Africaexpert



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure I would get exasperated from time to time. But for every thing that pissed me off, there were probably ten things that I liked.
Having a car made life much easier, getting where I needed to faster and not having to listen to all the horny guys on the street. Being an American made it far easier for me to get away with things a Moroccan probably couldn't. If I got pulled over for speeding, I always got out of it - unlike in the states. I had a housekeeper who was a great cook - I didn't have to put up with the drudgery of housekeeping, laundry, cooking, or even shopping if I didn't want to. I made decent money, and was always able to save, even as I had clothes tailor-made, took trips abroad, and lived a very comfortable life. I did luck into a great deal on a villa, and I had some nice tutoring gigs, one of which included a chauffeur drive and breakfast with a charming young royal 5 days a week, and a pretty sweet translation project. I suspect, Hod, you didn't stay long enough to figure out how to live well. You just decided you were not going to like Morocco. And that's your loss.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 962
Location: Home

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Africaexpert wrote:
Having a car made life much easier, getting where I needed to faster and not having to listen to all the horny guys on the street.


Nothing to add but ha ha ha.
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