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Has Anyone Brought their Dog or CAt to VN?
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thegoodprofessor



Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:33 am    Post subject: Pet lover Reply with quote

Fortunately VN is not my only offer for work. I've never been to the country and assumed I would love it, but by these accounts it sounds like a place for an animal lover to avoid.

My dog stays with me and is little and skinny but to have to worry all day while I am at work that someone could break into my apt, not only steal my equip but my dog as well or stab him walking down the street on a leash just sounds morbid.
He's a rescue and has been with me 6 years now. It would be horrible to have him stolen or even to have to be worrying all the time about it.
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anubistaima



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 110
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right --Vietnam is NOT the right place for an animal lover. I wish I could "unsee" some of the things I saw there. It's a brutal, primitive place. Beautiful to visit, not great to live. Maybe others had a different experience, but I think pet owners will have a tough time there. I think it's possible to keep your pets safe (otherwise, I would've left), but you have to work at it. Animal lovers who have a choice should not go to Vietnam.
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MrMrLuckyKhan



Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 282
Location: Kingdom of Cambodia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anubistaima wrote:
MrMrLuckyKhan wrote:
hurry up and bring the lil dog over; I'm staaaarving!!!


Everytime there's a thread about pets/dogs, an idiot shows up to make a joke about eating dogs. You have to wonder how they got a job teachiing, since it's obvious they're lacking in the IQ department.


Interesting view... I'm surprised u figured out it was even a joke because I didn't use "LOL" or "JK," for those readers who have an IQ just north of a cucumber.

It's very unfortunate you apparently lack the number 1 "TOP KEY" to being a successful teacher (according to one of MANY similar lists). However, unlike you I don't "have to wonder" how people without a sense of humor land teachIIng jobs because I AM fully aware of how easy they are to come by... Laughing Rolling Eyes


Top 6 Keys to Being a Successful Teacher

The most successful teachers share some common characteristics. Here are the top six keys to being a successful teacher. Every teacher can benefit from focusing on these important qualities. Success in teaching, as in most areas of life, depends almost entirely on your attitude and your approach.


1. Sense of Humor

A sense of humor can help you become a successful teacher. Your sense of humor can relieve tense classroom situations before they become disruptions. A sense of humor will also make class more enjoyable for your students and possibly make students look forward to attending and paying attention. Most importantly, a sense of humor will allow you to see the joy in life and make you a happier person as you progress through this sometimes stressful career.


2. A Positive Attitude

A positive attitude is a great asset in life. You will be thrown many curve balls in life and especially in the teaching profession. A positive attitude will help you cope with these in the best way. For example, you may find out the first day of school that you are teaching Algebra 2 instead of Algebra 1. This would not be an ideal situation, but a teacher with the right attitude would try to focus on getting through the first day without negatively impacting the students.


3. High Expectations

An effective teacher must have high expectations. You should strive to raise the bar for your students. If you expect less effort you will receive less effort. You should work on an attitude that says that you know students can achieve to your level of expectations, thereby giving them a sense of confidence too. This is not to say that you should create unrealistic expectations. However, your expectations will be one of the key factors in helping students learn and achieve.


4. Consistency

In order to create a positive learning environment your students should know what to expect from you each day. You need to be consistent. This will create a safe learning environment for the students and they will be more likely to succeed. It is amazing that students can adapt to teachers throughout the day that range from strict to easy. However, they will dislike an environment in which the rules are constantly changing.


5. Fairness

Many people confuse fairness and consistency. A consistent teacher is the same person from day to day. A fair teacher treats students equally in the same situation. For example, students complain of unfairness when teachers treat one gender or group of students differently. It would be terribly unfair to go easier on the football players in a class than on the cheerleaders. Students pick up on this so quickly, so be careful of being labelled unfair.


6. Flexibility

One of the tenets of teaching should be that everything is in a constant state of change. Interruptions and disruptions are the norm and very few days are 'typical'. Therefore, a flexible attitude is important not only for your stress level but also for your students who expect you to be in charge and take control of any situation.

http://712educators.about.com/od/teachingstrategies/tp/sixkeys.htm



Also, a little excerpt from one of my many teaching methodology books I've lugged across the vast planet , "how to Teach English," by Jeremy Harmer, 2004, Longman, page 2>>>

"A good teacher is an entertainer and I mean that in a positive sense, not a negative sense."







So, lighten up!!! Cool
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: indeed it does Reply with quote

I recall watching TV one day and the story was about farm animals. I had no clue what was happening, it was a pig farm, and they were going on about pigs, then suddenly the camera shows a guy hitting a pig over the head with a sledgehammer. They even showed the pig flopping around. These people have a very different attitude about animals here. It is their country, and we are in it, and if we change it, it is not going to be by much. I think it is fine to feel the way we want to feel about things, any things, but mostly, if we are here, we have to accept the way things are. If we do not have the stomach for it, we can leave. We can pretend it does not exist, we can laugh about it, we can cry about it. If we want to work ourselves into a frenzy about it, we can do that too, but I personally do not find that to be the best choice.
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tonyjones01



Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most Viet people think its crazy to have an animal living with humans and truth be told it is. If you saw someone from your home country living with a chicken youd think they were crazy but a dog is ok. You need to take a step back at see things through their eyes. Remember most Vietnamese are too busy trying to take care of their human family to have the time or resources to worry about an animal.
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anubistaima



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 110
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. MrMrLuckyKhan - What I said obviously bothered you, since you came up with a lengthy response. The fact that you landed a job doesn't say much about your abilities, honestly. It says more about the country you're in. You're free to eat dogs all you want, but please be a little smarter than to come to a thread about PETS to make stupid remarks. It's annoying. Feel free to start your own conversation about the wonders of dog meat if you want. Here, you're just being ignorant.

2. I actually don't think we need to accept anything. That's like saying we need to accept the fact that child prostitution is common in Cambodia so it must be ok and we have to live with it. Hmmm.... no. If it's wrong, it's wrong. I don't care people have been doing it for years. That alone doesn't make it right.

3. Despite what I think about eating dogs in general, I didn't come to this thread to argue about it. I came to give a response to somebody considering bringing his pet to Vietnam. It would've stayed like that if not for the idiocy of those who come along to make comments about eating dogs in a conversation that's obviously about pets.

4. @ mark_in_saigon: "If we do not have the stomach for it, we can leave." I did. That was the point of my whole comment. The poster asked about the safety of pets in Vietnam and I gave him the truth about it. Again, I wasn't so much focusing on "let's bash the barbaric Vietnamese" as on saying "look, they're primitive people when it comes to animals, so you need to decide if you can live with it." Not bashing you by any means. Just trying to clarify that comment, because that was exactly the point of my post: we probably can't change their attitude, so can you live with that?
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MrMrLuckyKhan



Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 282
Location: Kingdom of Cambodia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anubistaima wrote:
1. MrMrLuckyKhan - What I said obviously bothered you, since you came up with a lengthy response.


HaHa, your logic is silly. LENGTHY RESPONSE= OBVIOUSLY BOTHERED ???? WoW, with all these lengthy responses here on Dave's there must be a lot of bothered people.... Actually, I found what u said to be rather amusing, and I have waaaaay too much free time here in Cambodia... I would suggest you come here for a visit, BUT they have dog restaurants here with the BBQed dog heads sitting out front of the shops Crying or Very sad . Dog snatching is pretty common here too, unfortunately.

anubistaima wrote:
The fact that you landed a job doesn't say much about your abilities, honestly. It says more about the country you're in.


Hmmm... Yet another interesting view.. I wasn't aware of any countries that ask, "have you ever eaten dog or cracked jokes about eating dogs?" during the interview process. If there is such a country that asks such unrelated questions, surely u are qualified to teach there and I am not.. Also, I received a job offer from Apollo over a year ago in Saigon, but turned it down because I enjoy Cambodia 10,000X more!! They too forgot to ask important IQ questions about eating pets...

anubistaima wrote:

2. I actually don't think we need to accept anything. That's like saying we need to accept the fact that child prostitution is common in Cambodia so it must be ok and we have to live with it. Hmmm.... no. If it's wrong, it's wrong. I don't care people have been doing it for years. That alone doesn't make it right.


Well said. Clearly you REFUSE to 'accept' anything that's wrong. Quite a noble move to leave Vietnam because you can't 'live' in a country that does 'wrong' things. So, sounds like Siberia must be a perfectly moral country because you obviously wouldn't 'live with it' if they did anything wrong. Or are you there waging a moral war to create a country where you can live since you refuse to 'live with' or 'accept' anything that is 'wrong'?

anubistaima wrote:

2. I actually don't think we need to accept anything.


What about apologies, paychecks, and candy from strangers?? Those are things we can accept, right? And you should always accept compliments, if you are lucky enough to receive them..
Wink

Anyways, just take my advice and lighten up a little; life will be much more enjoyable for you and everyone around you! Cool
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anubistaima



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 110
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really don't want to be bothered with this discussion anymore. I'm not in Siberia anymore but you're right --People there are more civilized. Not perfect by any means (in fact, I have quite a few complaints about Russia), but at least more civilized.

I think my point was "be respectful". This is a thread about pets. Please, people, be mature and provide answers that help the OP. There's no reason to show up here to make the obvious jokes about eating dog.
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CThomas



Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Location: HCMC, Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anubistaima wrote:
There's no reason to show up here to make the obvious jokes about eating dog.


... except as a healthy way of coping with inexorable facts while living in, and wanting to stay in, a (relatively) weird culture.

Interesting that China, with it's growing affluence, is considering the practice a punishable offense. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/26/dog-meat-china
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:27 am    Post subject: with reference to the original poster Reply with quote

It is my opinion that one should never force another living creature to live in this environment. If you want to come here and take your chances, fine, but to drag someone else along who has no say in the matter, I think it is not fair to that creature. This is one difficult environment. Maybe you love it, fine, but I would never ask anyone else to come here unless he/she/it was very aware of the environment, and accepted the risks. As animals cannot speak to you, that would pretty much take them off the list of who I would bring over. I think if the creature is born here, then it is kinda different, they are already stuck with it, maybe you can help him/her/it, but if the creature is born in the west, I would not subject him/her/it to this without his/her/its agreement.
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CThomas



Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Location: HCMC, Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: with reference to the original poster Reply with quote

mark_in_saigon wrote:
It is my opinion that one should never force another living creature to live in this environment. If you want to come here and take your chances, fine, but to drag someone else along who has no say in the matter, I think it is not fair to that creature. This is one difficult environment. Maybe you love it, fine, but I would never ask anyone else to come here unless he/she/it was very aware of the environment, and accepted the risks. As animals cannot speak to you, that would pretty much take them off the list of who I would bring over. I think if the creature is born here, then it is kinda different, they are already stuck with it, maybe you can help him/her/it, but if the creature is born in the west, I would not subject him/her/it to this without his/her/its agreement.
.

Regarding agreement, let's reason through this.

A dog is born to follow its master to hell if need be. Without its master, it is not a dog. This is the nature of this animal. Depending on the relationship of the dog and its master, there may very well be an implicit agreement that the dog would accompany its master wherever the master goes on the face of the earth.

Once here, a dog and master *can live happily ever after. I'd be more concerned about the long flight over than actually living here.

*I've seen enough abuse, neglect, and accidents in the US and Latin America to know that you can't generalize about a place so much.

Question: if you get a dog here in Vietnam and really bond with it, would you take it back to the US?
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:01 am    Post subject: the logic of it all Reply with quote

A dog is born to follow its master to hell if need be. Without its master, it is not a dog.

Uhh, if the master dies, is it not still a dog? Or does he just throw himself on his master's grave in grief?

I think to say a dog is born to do such and so is more like an emotional statement. You can say it, but I am not sure I follow the logic, unless your logic is that man is all knowing and all powerful (rather like the logic people some, and dog is more than his property, he is an appendage, he has no rights but to blindly follow and serve. While I do not find dogs to be up to the level of humans, I do think that they should be respected a bit more than that. But living in VN, I can also see where logic would be that a dog is whatever man wants it to be, including dinner. Where I came from, we did not eat any animal that had a name. I wonder how the VN handle that?
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CThomas



Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Location: HCMC, Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: the logic of it all Reply with quote

mark_in_saigon wrote:
A dog is born to follow its master to hell if need be. Without its master, it is not a dog.

Uhh, if the master dies, is it not still a dog? Or does he just throw himself on his master's grave in grief?

I think to say a dog is born to do such and so is more like an emotional statement. You can say it, but I am not sure I follow the logic, unless your logic is that man is all knowing and all powerful (rather like the logic people some, and dog is more than his property, he is an appendage, he has no rights but to blindly follow and serve. While I do not find dogs to be up to the level of humans, I do think that they should be respected a bit more than that. But living in VN, I can also see where logic would be that a dog is whatever man wants it to be, including dinner. Where I came from, we did not eat any animal that had a name. I wonder how the VN handle that?


Uhh, if the master dies, is it not still a dog? Or does he just throw himself on his master's grave in grief?

Yes, if the bond is strong enough. Sometimes a dog will die of grief -- refuse to eat and die of liver failure -- at the loss. Same with some cats, actually. You can't just "undo" thousands of years of breading focused on developing precisely this bond.

The bond is, yes, emotional, but it is powerful and historically significant.

A good dog owner will consider bringing his or her dog with him or her unto death do they part. Not just for the master but for the dog as well. That's precisely why this poster is asking the question so sincerely and is researching the possibility so earnestly. According to your logic, you wouldn't take a baby across the street to 7-11 because that baby can't speak and the journey across the street may pose some danger. That just isn't life, man. Especially for an adventurous dog.

Logic and emotion are not mutually exclusive. I simply can't analyze and evaluate an entire multi-faceted race of people, nor a single poster, on this question.
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CThomas



Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Location: HCMC, Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: the logic of it all Reply with quote

Mark, I just realized that I say all that knowing this poster will in all likelihood not come here. Just sayin' that while you may prepare an answer.
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snollygoster



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:12 am    Post subject: Nameless dinner Reply with quote

We dont eat anything that has a name? Easy- do as most Viets do with animals- dont give them names. They are just "That horse-that dog etc" They usually (well most I have met anyway), find it most amusing that westerners would give an animal a name.
When confronted with the question "A dog is mans friend, would you eat your friend?" the most common answer is something like "no its not my friend, its a dog". We dont usually give chickens a name, and we eat them. (However, I cant imagine a chicken being a loyal pet).
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