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The weirdness here when applying for jobs

 
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Zackback



Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:06 am    Post subject: The weirdness here when applying for jobs Reply with quote

1. They call you at night and inform you that you have a job interview 9am tomorrow morning.
a. Thanks for the advanced notice.
b. Coming from outside of Manila into Manila for 9am? Traffic is awful.
2. About half the time the hours are not posted in the job advertisement. You have to find out what they are at the interview.
3. Virtually every advertisement the salary is not posted nor are you told what it is when contacted by phone or email to come in for the interview - even if you ask.

One time I went in for a job interview and was asked what I thought my salary should be. I wasn't exactly sure because I never worked in Manila before but I gave an estimate. Then I asked what it actually was and they told me that they didn't know. I was thinking to myself, "Well you are the boss. That is your job to tell me."
So for now on I no longer go to interviews that don't tell me the salary upfront before going in to the interview. I know it is rarely done here but I am not wasting my time anymore.
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Zatch



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what you feel about that issue. But being too conscious about the salary will give a bad impression on you by the company you are applying. And the chance of getting hired will also lessen.
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Zackback



Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not too conscious about the salary - I just want to know what it is. Why is it shrouded in such secrecy?
Kill a whole day getting there, attending the interview, coming back just to hear that either "We still don't know what to pay you" or "How about 180 pesos per hour?".
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tdu1510



Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zatch wrote:
I understand what you feel about that issue. But being too conscious about the salary will give a bad impression on you by the company you are applying. And the chance of getting hired will also lessen.
Nonsense. It is a fair question for a professional teacher to ask. Accepting a teaching job is a labor contract, only a fool would accept a contract without knowing the terms. If you are dealing with a reputable employer, they should be fully prepared to answer this reasonable question. If they mistake you for a charity worker and not a professional teacher you will only have problems in the future anyway.
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Teachurrrr



Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think both points are good. One should know the salary or at least the salary range before spending all day (preparing, travel time, time at school, etc) just for an interview or visit. Yet, one does not want the school to think salary is all the prospective teacher cares about.

International Schools and other traditonal schools will have set salary scales (though one should inquire about perks - insurance, housing allowance, flight reimbursement, etc.).

If I were job hunting for language academies or call centers in the Philippines, I would look at ads in the Freeman and Sunstar Newspaper (more job ads in Saturday and Sunday papers) in which only a FEW of them will list salary. For those ads that don't list salaries or contacting schools directly via phonebook, I would call them first.

1) During the call, I would briefly ask about the students, then the classrooms, then what they are looking for in a prospective teacher. If the contact person is difficult to reach or they are not willing to answer questions that build a repoire (which leads me to my question about salary), then I would thank them for their time, hang up, then call the next school.
2) Retry the above, then if they take the time to talk to me (good sign), then I would tell them about my experience (briefly) as a teacher and how I think this will benefit the school and the "needs" they described. At that point, I would tell them I am very interested and would ask them, "Just generally, what is the salary offered for foreign teachers?" If the person doesn't know, I would ask them to inquire with the staff or boss while I wait on the phone. If this proves difficult, then I would ask for the school's email, thank them for their time and say goodbye. I would later send an email with resume, mention that I talked to _______ and I am very interested in working for them. Maybe they will email me back. If and when they do, I inquire about the salary again (after the niceties).
3) I would keep calling schools and follow this procedure.
4) Some schools will actually tell me the salary. If it is remotely close to what I am willing to accept, I will arrange an interview or visit the school directly. All can be negotiated once I have a starting point on salary.
5) If I visit a school directly and have an interview, I would ask about the school first, then inquire about salary after establishing a repoire. If they are secretive about it, I would reiterate my interest in working for them and tell them when they are ready to provide a starting point on salary, I would be happy to receive their call. Then, I would excuse myself (as I might have other interviews), say goodbye, and off I go.
6) If they ask me what salary do I think is suitable, I would tell them politely but directly, "I need a starting point to be able to answer that question." If they can not do this, I would tell them the above (#5) and off I go. If they give me a starting point, then I can play the game and tell them I can consider their offer or if their starting point is not too far from my acceptable salary range, I will tell them my acceptable salary range. Then, it can be negotiated that day (if they really want me or in callbacks and emails over the next few weeks).

So, I would try my best to get salary info first via the ad. If no salary is listed (or if calling schools directly via phone book), I would call and try to build a repoire that leads up to the question of salary. If I am blocked by strouds of secrecy at any point, I would ask for the school's email (to inquire again), thank them for their time, and move on to the next school.

If the school is nearby and it's not a burden to travel there without knowing the salary, visit, interview, build repoire, and ask for a salary starting point. If successful, go from there. If not, move on to the next school.

There will be some headaches and it will feel like wasting time, but you will find something at a good salary (30,000 minimum up to 60,000 pesos).

If they start with 30,000, I would negotiate for more (within 10,000 + apartment (or allowance).
If they offer 40,000, I would negotiate for apartment (or allowance).
If they offer 50,000, that's decent (for me at least)
If they offer 60,000, that's good (for me at least).
I would still inquire about an for apartment (or allowance) if the repoire went well.

Anyway, that's what I would do. It worked in 2002 and 2006 for me. I even got work visas from the schools in which I worked (and one was a Korean language academy in Cebu).

I'm sure you will figure it out and end up with something good. Just go with your comfort level (if it isn't comfortable, don't do it). Just be patient. Best of luck.

Teachurrrr
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Pauleddy



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 295
Location: The Big Mango

PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to be a wordnazi, but what is REPOIRE?

Do you mean RAPPORT or REPERTOIRE? I suspect that you mean rapport.

Eddy
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Teachurrrr



Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Paul. Honestly, it's a spelling mistake. I wrote repoire instead of rapport and didn't think anything of it. According to Oxford and Webster's dictionaries, it's a mis-spelling of rapport.

By the way, I googled "repoire" and got 78,000 hits. I googled "rapport" and got 90,800,000 hits.

Thanks for bringing it my attention.

Teachurrrr
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jasonarz_kmc



Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Zack,

I absolutely understand how frustrating these job offerings can get, but they usually do these things for a reason.

First off, I'd just like to point out what you previously said in a post "I'm not too conscious about the salary", well if you're not too conscious then you shouldn't be in a hurry to ask. Salary amounts are given when companies are already offering you a contract to sign, which comes after they are sure you're qualified and you're the one they want for the job, which can only come once they're done interviewing you. Make sense?
Well, the people who can't give you an estimate of the salary at or before an interview are just unreasonable, I totally get that.

Oh, and the people hiring you are not technically your bosses. They're just the HR (Human Resource) department, recruitment branch. Its a different department that handles salaries. And they normally only have regular office hours, 9am-6pm. The latest a recruiter could call you would be 7pm. But that would ultimately depend on the type of company.

One last thing, what kind of job were you applying for anyway? And what kind of company? (You can regard these questions as rhetorical if you want) Anyway, companies that advertise salaries are companies that always need, or are in serious need of people (e.g. Call Centers), companies that don't advertise salaries do so because they want applicants to inquire about these matters themselves. It also evens out the playing field for other companies having the same vacancies. Usually, these companies can give you estimates during the interview or the phone call. They will also, 100%, show you the exact salary at the job offering (at which point you can decide to take it or leave it).

Bottom line, there are more individuals than there are companies. Its gonna be easier for a company to get an employee that it is for an applicant to land a good job. My point being, applying for a job is serious stuff which takes effort.

Jason
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