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Degree of Difficulty finding ANY ESL work in Asia by Country

 
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gloomyGumi



Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:29 am    Post subject: Degree of Difficulty finding ANY ESL work in Asia by Country Reply with quote

I think this topic will also be interesting, as I mean any English teaching work at all, at any level, from low-quality cram schools to high-end jobs. Let's opine here about which countries are number 1 (meaning the easiest to find work) to let's say number 7 or 8 (meaning most difficult to find work). Remember, the quality or level of the English teaching is not important here, only the ease (or lack thereof) of finding it by country.

With the little knowledge I have, I'd say:

1. South Korea
2. China
3. Japan
4. Taiwan
5. Indonesia
6. Vietnam
7. Thailand
8. Malaysia (?)
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tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: Degree of Difficulty finding ANY ESL work in Asia by Cou Reply with quote

gloomyGumi wrote:
I think this topic will also be interesting, as I mean any English teaching work at all, at any level, from low-quality cram schools to high-end jobs. Let's opine here about which countries are number 1 (meaning the easiest to find work) to let's say number 7 or 8 (meaning most difficult to find work). Remember, the quality or level of the English teaching is not important here, only the ease (or lack thereof) of finding it by country.

With the little knowledge I have, I'd say:

1. South Korea
2. China
3. Japan
4. Taiwan
5. Indonesia
6. Vietnam
7. Thailand
8. Malaysia (?)


I assume you mean ease of finding LEGAL work. This maybe needs 2 lists.
Easiest to find work and the easiest to obtain a work visa/work permits so you can accept the job and go to work.

topping the list for the ability for "qualified" (as in meet the immigration requirements for visa/work permits) teachers to find work:

1) S.Korea, China, Thailand.
If you are white, have a pulse and a degree then finding work is about as hard as breathing. If you don't have the degree then the chance for legal work falls off rapidly.

2) Taiwan would be a close 2nd but the ability to find steady work moved it off the top 3.

3)Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam fall into the #3 spot simply due to the small size of the market compared to the size of the population.

4) Japan would be at the bottom of the list. The market is certainly saturated with teachers and the economy won't support enough private language academies to keep them all employed.

List #2 - dealing with actually getting a visa and making it to work after you get a contract.

1) Japan, Thailand are about the easiest when it comes to dealing with the paperwork (from the teachers perspective).

2) Indonesia comes in at a close 2nd.

3) China can be daunting and is in the same league as Malaysia and Vietnam for paperwork (on the part of the teacher).

4) Korea is fast becoming a paper nightmare for new teachers but as the kinks get worked out of the system I think it will quickly move up the list and Thailand will move down as the paperwork there becomes more onerous.

.
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gloomyGumi



Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I assume you mean ease of finding LEGAL work. This maybe needs 2 lists.


awesome point. yeah, what I left out was LEGAL work all the way thru to obtaining rather easily a work visa AFTER the job offer is made. So let's leave out ILLEGAL work, and even--SADLY--those easy countries that you can find work in but whose beaurocracies utterly annihilate the visa obtaining process, so that one would NOT seek work there. Turkey comes to mind as people apparently do get job offers somewhat easily there, yet are doing visa runs every 90 days whilst the government pushes its laborious paperwork through untold local, state and federal offices, just in time to get you (and Im guessing probably not your wife or husband) a visa after.........9 months??? Sad

So yeah let's leave out those situations as well. Just strtaight forward legal-all-the-way-2-the-work visa countries.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but this post is silly. Even if we stick to legal jobs only, you are not taking into account some important factors.

1. Almost nobody has worked in all of those countries, so you can't get an accurate comparison.

2. Even if they had worked in all, it would have been years since the first one, so times may have changed.

3. There is more than one type of teaching position. Conversation school vs. university vs. cram school vs. vocational/tech school vs. business English school vs. public or private K-12 vs. international school, etc.

4. Requirements for all of the above vary.

5. You have not even stated what your qualifications are (assuming that you want a job and are here shopping around).

Any debate here is nearly pointless.
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gloomyGumi



Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree. To participate in this discussion using all one's knowledge shouldn't need to require actually having worked in all those countries. (is that a sentence? Smile ) whatever one knows, even 2nd-hand knowledge or a recent story from a friend who got a job in 1 of those countries, would be valuable to my fact-finding mission here.

I also stated in the OP that ANY kind of school is included here. Even if you think its silly, if you can participate on the OP I would appreciate it.
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KayuJati



Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 312

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I would go with tttompatz's ranking. It looks about right considering what I have experienced (Malaysia and China) and read about.

In fact, tttompatz, to me, should get the Poster of the Year award. Always informative and thorough in his (or her) answers.

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gloomyGumi



Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes tommpattzz 's reply was great. Thailand seems great, but I heard their newest FBI/CIA and IRS checks are somewhat prohibitive, or atleast discouraging. My state background check, done b4 I left america, should be enough anywhere anytime, as my passport proves I havent returned MOD EDIT
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6608
Location: Need to know basis only.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off-topic postings have been deleted or edited. If there are more, there will be sanctions.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gloomyGumi wrote:
I also stated in the OP that ANY kind of school is included here. Even if you think its silly, if you can participate on the OP I would appreciate it.
Ok, but first please state your qualifications and experience. They will determine where you can work, by country and by type of teaching job.
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gloomyGumi



Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 4 year bachelor of arts degree in English from a great university in New York. I have about 2 and a half years of ESL teaching experience in Korea, but I don't have a CELTA or even one of those cheaper certificates. I really don't wanna have to do one either.
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Captain_Fil



Joined: 06 Jan 2011
Posts: 604
Location: California - the land of fruits and nuts

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KayuJati wrote:
Yeah, I would go with tttompatz's ranking. It looks about right considering what I have experienced (Malaysia and China) and read about.

In fact, tttompatz, to me, should get the Poster of the Year award. Always informative and thorough in his (or her) answers.

Exclamation


I agree.

tttompatz rocks!

Cool
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PG_Tips



Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Posts: 20
Location: TYO

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gloomyGumi wrote:
I have a 4 year bachelor of arts degree in English from a great university in New York. I have about 2 and a half years of ESL teaching experience in Korea, but I don't have a CELTA or even one of those cheaper certificates. I really don't wanna have to do one either.

For many asian employers the prestige of your university will matter little. It's more a bureaucratic box that can be ticked. That has at least been my experience, and a sentiment that appears pervasive on the ELT forums I read. Your experience is as important as anything else. While I would agree that avoiding one of those nasty online TEFL certificates is a good idea, I wouldn't eschew the CELTA or Trinity Cert so readily, though. Either can give you the nod over other applicants. And it doesn't hurt to keep training or pick up some new skills. Especially in places where the schools can find new blood almost instantly.
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