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Jakarta or Istanbul????

 
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eihpos



Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Jakarta or Istanbul???? Reply with quote

I wasn't sure on which forum to post this question! I have never been to either country, but both interest me and I have a job offer from schools in Jakarta and Istanbul.


Which is best in terms of professional development, potential for saving, culture social life, and any other aspects?I'm hoping to catch the attention of someone who has worked in both countries, but any opinions would be valued and welcome!

Thanks!
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Istanbul is one of the most beautiful cities in the world with world-famous sights and museums. In contrast Jakarta offers traffic jams, regular floods, and miles and miles of ugly concrete buildings. But Jakarta is not boring. It has a lot of expats, restaurants and there are watering holes. It isn't hard to meet people or make friends in Jakarta.

Professional development will depend on the school. I think you mentioned you might work for Wall Street. They are the most professional language school in Indonesia. They pay the best and receive the least negative reviews. In terms of school you have picked well.

In the end the more factors you weigh up, the more complex the decision becomes. It will be easy if you decide what your priority is eg. culture, affordability or professional advancement and decide on one of two grounds. Nowhere is going to be perfect.
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Istanbul, more pay much fewer problems. I've never been to Istanbul, have been to Jakarta, but never worked there, but I can tell you right away knowing what I know I would choose Istanbul. Indonesia is for hard core SE Asia lovers and those looking for Indonesian girlfriends Laughing
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plumpy nut wrote:
Istanbul, more pay much fewer problems. I've never been to Istanbul, have been to Jakarta, but never worked there, but I can tell you right away knowing what I know I would choose Istanbul. Indonesia is for hard core SE Asia lovers and those looking for Indonesian girlfriends Laughing


Jakarta may be slightly cheaper though. But as for Indonesian girlfriend hunters, I am sure the industry in Jakarta would collapse without them! He is on the money there!
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eihpos



Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm - thanks for the replies. I may be better off in Istanbul, since I like art and culture. Though Wall Street do sound like a good company to work for and I like Asian countries! The salary is much the same, maybe a little more in Jakarta, but Turkey is nearer home for visits....oh this is difficult!
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing rules Jakarta and that is money. It is a money and status-obsessed city. Sometimes you get the feeling poor Indonesians would rather have a nice phone than eat. It is a town full of mall-rats. You can buy designer labels but there isn't much culture or art. You can go to Yogyakarta for your holidays though. There is a lot more culture and tradition in that part of Java. You can see batik being made, visit ancient temples and see traditional dance there. If you want culture in Indonesia you need to get outside Jakarta.
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Gajah Oling



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Jawa

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eihpos wrote:
Mmm - thanks for the replies. I may be better off in Istanbul, since I like art and culture. Though Wall Street do sound like a good company to work for and I like Asian countries! The salary is much the same, maybe a little more in Jakarta, but Turkey is nearer home for visits....oh this is difficult!


If it's art and culture you're looking for, definitely don't go to Jakarta. However, you might consider Jogja, or the even more provincial Solo. The former has loads of both traditional arts/culture as well as lots of contemporary, western-influence artists. Solo prides itself on being the "heart of Java" and has quite a robust tradition of traditional Javanese music, theater and dance.
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jef dam



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I'd avoid Turkey altogether for the time being, it's pretty hairy there at the moment.

If you're looking for culture Jakarta is a no-no, Jogja or Solo would be your best bet, but the money wouldn't be a patch on Jakarta.
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jef dam wrote:
Personally I'd avoid Turkey altogether for the time being, it's pretty hairy there at the moment.

If you're looking for culture Jakarta is a no-no, Jogja or Solo would be your best bet, but the money wouldn't be a patch on Jakarta.


Most people come to Jakarta for the money. It pays better than other Indonesian cities- usually much more. It is also more expensive. If you could get similar money in a smaller city, you would certainly be better off, as Jakarta is more expensive than most places in Indonesia (except really remote areas like Papua.)
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jef dam wrote:
Personally I'd avoid Turkey altogether for the time being, it's pretty hairy there at the moment.

If you're looking for culture Jakarta is a no-no, Jogja or Solo would be your best bet, but the money wouldn't be a patch on Jakarta.


Most people come to Jakarta for the money. It pays better than other Indonesian cities- usually much more. It is also more expensive. If you could get similar money in a smaller city, you would certainly be better off, as Jakarta is more expensive than most places in Indonesia (except really remote areas like Papua.)
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jef dam wrote:
Personally I'd avoid Turkey altogether for the time being, it's pretty hairy there at the moment.

If you're looking for culture Jakarta is a no-no, Jogja or Solo would be your best bet, but the money wouldn't be a patch on Jakarta.


Every Indonesian expat and their mother wants to work in Yogya or Solo. It might be difficult to find a job their. Of course you could try to teach independently to students at the university in Yogya. I've heard from good Indonesian sources that that can be done, although the money is a little slow at first.
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jef dam



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

princesss wrote:

Most people come to Jakarta for the money. It pays better than other Indonesian cities- usually much more. It is also more expensive. If you could get similar money in a smaller city, you would certainly be better off, as Jakarta is more expensive than most places in Indonesia (except really remote areas like Papua.)


Yeah, salaries tend to reflect the cost of living...............

Look at it this way, an EF salary is livable in Jakarta with enough left over to make it to Bali or the Gilis on the cheap for a week or two. If you're smart with a TBI / Wall Street / Nat+ wage, that 15 - 18 million will go a hell of a long way.

Fair enough, there's culture in Jogja and Solo, but realistically, how many gamelan concerts or wayang puppet shows are you going to go to? Especially if you're working 6 day weeks and split shifts in a language school.

Bear in mind, I'm not entirely sure what type of job opportunities there are in Jogja and Solo aside from EF, but as was already mentioned any job even slightly better will be very competitively fought for, and still significantly worse paid than the equivalent in Jakarta.

The main reason people come to Indonesia is to see the country, and weather you're in Jakarta or Central Java getting to Sulawesi, or Sumatera, or Ambon is still going to cost the same, possibly more if you're in Central Java. Why low-ball yourself on your salary and restrict the amount of travel you can do?

Personally, I go where the money is. Everything tends to fall into place thereafter.
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has a job offer at Wall Street, which is good. It is easily the least controversial and most reputable ESL school in Indonesia these days. It has expanded rapidly and now has 6 large branches in the Jakarta area, serving 8000 customers. It has overtaken TBI in numbers just a few years after arriving in Indonesia.

For the sake of accuracy I should add that Wall Street pays up to Rp 17 million (with experience), which is a good wage. TBI only pays a measly Rp 9-10 million in schools like TBI Bekasi and TBI Bogor. It is a now a "two speed" company with franchise schools paying rock bottom wages and a couple of central schools paying Rp 15 million. Wall Street pays the same at all branches and doesn't treat some teachers like second class citizens. It is reassuring to know that Wall Street has a commitment to all its teachers, unlike TBI where teachers at franchise schools fend for themselves. TBI Bekasi in particular needs to be avoided due to a horrible record of teacher exploitation and broken promises.
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