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jana110j
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 4
Location: USA
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 Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:00 pm Post subject: Experienced Teacher going to Taiwan, questions |
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| Hello all, I am definitely a newbie!!! I have been teaching high school social studies in the states for the past six years. I am looking for a change this next year. I have read through many of the forums and posted my CV and Taiwan looks like a great opportunity for me. I would be taking my son who will be seven with me for this cultural experience. I have read to try and stay out of Taipai. A couple of recruiters have e-mailed me. Is that the way to go? I feel I need a job before going over there. I also plan on saving some money since the cost of living is soo cheap. Any words of wisdom or advice? I am open to all suggestions!!!!!! Thanks. |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:47 am Post subject: Re: Experienced Teacher going to Taiwan, questions |
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Welcome.
| jana110j wrote: |
| I have read to try and stay out of Taipai. |
I live in Taipei and therefore may be biased here, but I would have to ask you what reasons there are to avoid Taipei. If recruiters or others have suggested this to you then I would be suspicious of their motives. Possibly they have positions that they need to fill outside of Taipei and are therefore trying to discourage you from settling here in favor of other areas. I am familiar with the posts made on this board on the subject of avoiding Taipei, but considering that they are made by an individual who has never lived in Taipei, I would be wary of the advice that is given. It might be best if you post the reasons that you feel Taipei should be avoided, and then let some of us who live here give you our points of view. You can then make an informed decision.
| jana110j wrote: |
| I would be taking my son who will be seven with me for this cultural experience. |
Considering that you will have your son with you, I personally wouldn't suggest that you live anywhere but Taipei. You will no doubt find that things go more smoothly here and that you will have a lot less surprises than you may have in the central and southern areas of the island, which are know for being unpredictable. Not bad, just unpredictable.
| jana110j wrote: |
| A couple of recruiters have e-mailed me. Is that the way to go? |
Recruiters are not advisable for most people, but considering that your son will be with you they might be an advantage to you. Check them out carefully and only go with one that seems to be reliable and honest. In fact, you should probably post the names of recruiters that you are thinking of dealing with here so that you can get the lowdown before you make a commitment. Make sure that you get paid directly, not through the recruiter. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:11 am Post subject: |
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If you have a teaching certificate in the US try the Taipei American School. It is one of the best paying and professional teaching positions on the island.
There are numerous international schools here, have a look.
http://www.tepaonline.net/taiwan/
Good luck,
A. |
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MTurton
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Jana, check your private messages.
Michael |
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jana110j
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 4
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:58 pm Post subject: Thanks for the advice |
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Brian and Aristotle thank-you so much for your guidance. I have been through this forum in length and found it to be very useful.
Brian I was told the cost of living in Taipai was more than everywhere else. I was hoping to be able to save some money when I came over. Do you suggest e-mailing schools independently?
Aristotle I appreciate the website, very useful. I have read many of your postings - quite insightful. I am working towards my PhD and after telling my professor what I wanted to do he said he had a friend in Taipai that I could contact. ALthough his friend is 70, I hope to contact him soon to find out more or get a lead. I only want to come for one year since I will be taking a leave of absence from my current school here in the states. Let me know if you have any other words of wisdom!!  |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Experienced Teacher going to Taiwan, questions |
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| jana110j wrote: |
| Hello all, I am definitely a newbie!!! I have been teaching high school social studies in the states for the past six years. I am looking for a change this next year. I have read through many of the forums and posted my CV and Taiwan looks like a great opportunity for me. I would be taking my son who will be seven with me for this cultural experience. I have read to try and stay out of Taipai. A couple of recruiters have e-mailed me. Is that the way to go? I feel I need a job before going over there. I also plan on saving some money since the cost of living is soo cheap. Any words of wisdom or advice? I am open to all suggestions!!!!!! Thanks. |
Besides Taipei there are also other big cities you could consider, including Taichung, Kaoshiung, Tainan and surrounding suburbs. Recruiters are good for finding schools. They don't guarantee the quality of the school and you can't complain to them if you end up in a situation you don't like. So once they find you a school you need to do your own work to make sure it is a place you would like to be. They tend not to like changing the school if you decide you don't like it because they make arrangements in advance to send you there, so you might have problems with that. But they are a dime a dozen anyway so if you have trouble with one just drop them and go with another. The standard thing is for the school to arrange to have you picked up at the airport, so you should insist on this. It's a lot better than having to find your own way there once you arrive. I always say Taipei is too expensive and people always argue with me that the extra expense is made up for by the quality of life and abundance of jobs. Taipei is definately different from the rest of the island. As far as job abundance goes, it seems there are more people working hourly there who cannot find full time work than elsewhere on the island. You will definately be able to save money. You should go over before July 1st so that you can take advantage of income tax savings. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Many people argue with Seeburn on this forum because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Bear in mind he is posting from Toronto, Canada. He doesn't live here anymore and lived here less than a year when he did. He never lived in Taipei and therefore shouldn't comment. It is true that other cities are somewhat cheaper than Taipei. But there are sacrifices. Firstly, you will be more culturally and linguistically isolated in alot of other centers. Few people here speak any amount of English to start with. Go outside of Taipei and basically nobody can. Another point worth considering is that most cities here are dirty, ugly places. Taipei is the place on the island with the best restaurants, museums, things to do and most vibrant ex-pat community. Also, as you are an actual teacher, you can get jobs in Taipei's various international schools (eg Taipei American school) that serve foreign residents. These places pay rather well and more than make up for the extra rent cost. |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks for the advice |
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| jana110j wrote: |
| Brian I was told the cost of living in Taipai was more than everywhere else. I was hoping to be able to save some money when I came over. |
I realize that people often say this, but more often than not they haven't actually lived here and have some alterior motive.
It is true that rents are generally higher in Taipei, just the same as they are in most big cities, but then so is the quality of living. You are paying for the convenience that city living has to offer, it's infrastructure and the fact that you have everything you could ever need in the way of western restaurants and supermarkets etc. Bear in mind that Taipei is the only city in Taipei that has an established metro system. Many people in other cities get around on their motorcyles and scooters, but I wouldn't imagine that you would want to be taking your son around on one of these. They are incredibly dangerous afterall. Buses are a possibility, but can be crowded and rather dirty at times.
There is certainly nothing wrong with other big cities in Taiwan such as Taichung and Kaohsiung. Considering that you have a child with you though, I am not so sure that the other cities can offer what you need.
Other than rent, I don't agree that the cost of living is higher in Taipei. Everyday things cost the same here as other places on the island if you shop in the right places, and imported western goods may in fact be cheaper here and certainly more readily available. On a recent trip down south I noticed that the western style restaurants down there were priced the same as in Taipei. I would assume that utilities would cost the same.
You are more likely to find a choice of work in Taipei, and this will enable you to find a job that is suitable for you. Be wary of salaried positions as they require you to be at work all day, and when you factor in the hours that you are there with the amount you are earning, it sometimes works out as low as NTD300-400 per hour that you at school. I would recommend that you remain open to hourly positions that should pay between NTD550-650 per hour considering your experience. The benefits are about the same.
| jana110j wrote: |
| Do you suggest e-mailing schools independently? |
Yes. Contact as many schools as you can before you arrive and line up some interviews. In most cases you are probably best to make your own way to Taipei and put yourself up in a reasonably priced hotel for a few days to week until you find a job. If you have a school pick you up from the airport then there will be an expectation there that you will work for them, and this may not be in your best interests.
I would also email some recruiters if I were you so that you have a backup if you can't anything by yourself.
As a female you should no trouble getting work, but anyone over the age of about 40 (I don't know how old you are - and am too polite to ask!!) may meet some resistance from some schools. It's not impossible but certainly more difficult for these people to secure a job. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
| Many people argue with Seeburn on this forum because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Bear in mind he is posting from Toronto, Canada. He doesn't live here anymore and lived here less than a year when he did. He never lived in Taipei and therefore shouldn't comment. It is true that other cities are somewhat cheaper than Taipei. But there are sacrifices. Firstly, you will be more culturally and linguistically isolated in alot of other centers. Few people here speak any amount of English to start with. Go outside of Taipei and basically nobody can. |
Not true. I met a number of english speaking chinese in the Taichung area. Nearly everybody knew a few words.
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| Another point worth considering is that most cities here are dirty, ugly places. Taipei is the place on the island with the best restaurants, museums, things to do and most vibrant ex-pat community. |
But it's still a dirty, ugly place. One of the dirtiest and ugliest on the island, actually. Most of the expats are also pretty wacked out people. It is the typical thing you find in asia. Be particularly careful of the 20 somethings. They are a moxley group. Some real weirdos. I just laugh when I hear you call the Taipei expat community "vibrant". Like technicolour vibrant. Don't ask about their personal lives. Taichung also had a good expat community, and very good cultural offerings (restaurants, night markets, galleries, etc). I found Taipei's social life stiff and boring, except for the above mentioned "colourful people".
| Quote: |
| Also, as you are an actual teacher, you can get jobs in Taipei's various international schools (eg Taipei American school) that serve foreign residents. These places pay rather well and more than make up for the extra rent cost. |
This is true. But there are international schools in other cities too.
Last edited by jason_seeburn on Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jana110j
Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 4
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:44 pm Post subject: Schools in Taipai |
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| I have e-mail Taipai American School and they have no further openings. I have also contacted Lincoln American School and waiting to hear something back from them. I am hesitant about the hourly suggestion just because it is not concrete. Once you begin hourly postitions is that something you can count on regularly? If I were to come without having a job first to Taipai, what are the chances of getting something that week (percentage wise)? I am 29 so the age issue would not be a problem, I know my qulaifications would be okay, it just makes me nervous to be coming with nothing lined up. I have read through other websites and found that the academic year is about Sept. to the end of July which is fine with me. What are your thoughts? |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Schools in Taipai |
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| jana110j wrote: |
| I have e-mail Taipai American School and they have no further openings. I have also contacted Lincoln American School and waiting to hear something back from them. I am hesitant about the hourly suggestion just because it is not concrete. Once you begin hourly postitions is that something you can count on regularly? If I were to come without having a job first to Taipai, what are the chances of getting something that week (percentage wise)? I am 29 so the age issue would not be a problem, I know my qulaifications would be okay, it just makes me nervous to be coming with nothing lined up. I have read through other websites and found that the academic year is about Sept. to the end of July which is fine with me. What are your thoughts? |
Hourly is mostly for people who want to work part time. You can easily get a monthly salary of 60,000NT. Rent anywhere on the island other than Taipei shouldn't be more than 8,000NT per month at the upper limit for an upper class, three bedroom appartment. Bachelors go for as little as 3,000NT. Coming without a job to Taipei is kind of risky. A lot of people get lured over with promises of big money, then wander around Taipei for weeks doing demos and get nothing at all, or only a part time job with a promise of more hours if they perform well. If you're coming without a job you need to think about where you will live, and how you will deal with transportation issues. Taipei is a much tougher market for ESL teachers simply because there are a lot of foreigners there and there is stiff competition. If you go down to Taichung, and do some demos in the suburbs, you will get a job almost immediately. I had several job offers when I was leaving, once local schools heard I had quit at my school. My roommate had 3 jobs but his ARC issuing school made him quit two of them. If you do go to Taipei and find you can't get work, I wouldn't get discouraged because the rest of the island is quite different and you will find as you move down the West coast towards Kaoshiung that you receive many job offers, abeit in places you probably won't like that much because they are rather small and boring. You want to be relatively close to a big city (like Taichung for example) so that you don't get too bored and have access to a foreigner society (unless you are planning on becoming chinese). So yeah, if you're feeling adventurous, go to Taipei and do some demos and try to find full time work. But don't get down if you can't find anything because it is a tough place to get work, as the expats who are living there will tell you once you get there. You'll probably be told that you need to "work your way up" to a good position. On the rest of the island it's not like that. You just walk into high paying jobs.
Good luck |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, Jason, hourly is not just for part-timers. Salary usually means lower pay and higher work hours. I work full-time, but get paid by the hour (not on salary). Jason, do you really think you should be advising prospective teachers when you no longer reside here and only resided here for nine months when you did? |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Schools in Taipai |
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| jana110j wrote: |
| I am hesitant about the hourly suggestion just because it is not concrete. Once you begin hourly postitions is that something you can count on regularly? |
If you feel more comfortable on a salary then that is fine, but please don't misunderstand the situation. Salary jobs aren't really what they appear. They don't offer any more job security than hourly paid positions. They generally don't offer any more benefits (sometimes you will get things such as paid typhoon days etc., but this is not always the case).
Legally schools are required to give you 14 or more hours per week, so assuming you were never given more than the minimum number of hours, you would still be earning NTD30,800-36,400 per month. Of course this isn't nearly enough to make savings on, but it guarantees that you can cover your rent (as much of a guarantee as salary positions). Provided that you are a reasonable teacher, and have a reasonable attitude you would expect to pick up extra hours and end up working about 25 to 35 hours a week.
The real difference between salary and hourly positions comes with the hours and pay rates. A salary position will require you to be at work about eight hours a day, for around NTD3,200 a day. You could earn that same amount on an hourly rate by only working five hours a day at most schools. It isn't difficult to find that many hours provided that you stick with a good school or a chain school.
| jana110j wrote: |
| If I were to come without having a job first to Taipai, what are the chances of getting something that week (percentage wise)? I am 29 so the age issue would not be a problem, I know my qulaifications would be okay, it just makes me nervous to be coming with nothing lined up. I have read through other websites and found that the academic year is about Sept. to the end of July which is fine with me. What are your thoughts? |
Everything else being equal, and assuming that you interviewed at 10 schools that were seriously looking for a teacher, I would think that you could expect to get a job offer out of at least 6 if not more of them. No guarantees of course, but I would think an 80% chance of finding a job within your first week wouldn't be unreasonable. I understand your concern with coming here without a job, particularly since you are not coming alone, but you probably don't need to worry too much. It would of course be wise to come here with a back up plan.
Your best chance of finding a job would be just before summer as many new classes open during the summer. Other than HESS I haven't heard of any of the buxibans that has semesters. Most open classes on an ongoing basis and could need teachers at any time.
One final thing. Don't be misled into thinking that signing a contract overseas will guarantee you a job when you get here. Of course the expectation is that you would, and in most cases this would be correct, but you wouldn't be the first to arrive and find that their job had evaporated. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
| Actually, Jason, hourly is not just for part-timers. Salary usually means lower pay and higher work hours. I work full-time, but get paid by the hour (not on salary). Jason, do you really think you should be advising prospective teachers when you no longer reside here and only resided here for nine months when you did? |
Hourly is usually part time. Read the job advertisements section on this site and the various other sites that advertise for taiwan jobs. When they say hourly, they almost always mean part time. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Schools in Taipai |
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| Quote: |
| The real difference between salary and hourly positions comes with the hours and pay rates. A salary position will require you to be at work about eight hours a day, for around NTD3,200 a day. You could earn that same amount on an hourly rate by only working five hours a day at most schools. It isn't difficult to find that many hours provided that you stick with a good school or a chain school. |
This is not true. I was paid a salary of 63,000NT a month, and was never at my school for more than 6 hours. I usually got there at 2:30 and left at 8:30pm, except on Tuesdays when I got there at 4:00 and left at 8:30. There are three types of schools you will deal with. The first is the school age kids school, where classes start when regular school classes get out. The young school kids get out earlier than the older ones, so your first class at 2:30 or so will be young kids. The older ones come around 4:00 or so. The second type of school is the kindergarten, where you have really young kids and you teach in the mornings. The third type is the adult school, and these almost always have classes at night and on the weekends. The school you work at will probably have a combination of the three. Where it gets bad is when they try to make you work a split shift (ie, teach kindergarten in the morning, finish at 12:00pm, and then come back at say 6:00pm to teach some highschool kids or something. This really sucks. Usually, this happens when you work hourly, because you are trying to get as many hours in as you can, so you take whatever shifts they can give you. If you are on a monthly salary, then you have more control over your schedule because when you negotiate your contract with the school you can ask them exactly what your schedule will be like and then hold them to this. You don't need to worry about picking up extra classes here and there to make more money.
| Quote: |
| Everything else being equal, and assuming that you interviewed at 10 schools that were seriously looking for a teacher, I would think that you could expect to get a job offer out of at least 6 if not more of them. No guarantees of course, but I would think an 80% chance of finding a job within your first week wouldn't be unreasonable. I understand your concern with coming here without a job, particularly since you are not coming alone, but you probably don't need to worry too much. It would of course be wise to come here with a back up plan. |
In Taipei?
| Quote: |
| Your best chance of finding a job would be just before summer as many new classes open during the summer. Other than HESS I haven't heard of any of the buxibans that has semesters. Most open classes on an ongoing basis and could need teachers at any time. |
Yeah, Hess is great. You should read all the positive experiences people have had there.
| Quote: |
| One final thing. Don't be misled into thinking that signing a contract overseas will guarantee you a job when you get here. Of course the expectation is that you would, and in most cases this would be correct, but you wouldn't be the first to arrive and find that their job had evaporated. |
This is less true with smaller cities. In Taipei there are always lots of foreigners looking for work so your job can be taken in the time it takes you to get over there. |
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