Job Discussion Forums

[the lowlander]

The project was ALWAYS supposed to run until 2013, so if the contractors are now talking up the fact that it MIGHT actually stagger on until then, well, things are surely in a terminal tailspin.

In the beginning, the contractors were rabbiting on about the whole money making scheme....er.....training initiative..... lasting for all of eternity.

Pity then, that the contractors hadn't actually bothered to think up any sort of curriculum for the Malaysian trainees, or any sort of coherent staff training programme for the foreigner mentors, which would have allowed them to fulfill their dreams of coining it in until the end of time.

[snollygoster]

This project provides the perfect template on how NOT to conduct a training program for ESL teachers.
1. Hire inexperienced ESL teachers with no knowledge of teacher training.
2. Give them NO guidance and no curriculum.
3. Place them in isolated out of the way places with none of the comforts of home.
4. Give them teachers to mentor-teachers who know a lot more than the metor does about the job.
5. Forget to tell them relevant things like how much tax they will pay.
6. Treat their concerns as "whinging" (I think it was SMR who said "always get whingers').
7. Force the teachers to attend seminars by the inexperienced mentors-seminars in which teachers generally have no choice but to listen to a youngster lecture at them about things they don't need.
8. Put in place a management team that has not the slightest clue on how to manage a project, and deals with problems by aggressively threatning its employees.
Perfect recipe for success! (If your aim is to fail miserably).

[the lowlander]

Snollygoster,

You hit eight nails on the head......perfectly!

I could not agree with you more.

[snollygoster]

Recent articles in the magazine of the MELTA (Malaysian English language Teachers Association), indicate members feel there is sufficient local talent to disseminate English teaching training by locals, at a lower cost than the current programs being run by the contractors on the special English Training for teachers programs.
I am not sure I agree from my own observations, but I DO know that I have met some very capable English teachers who could certainly do a much better job than what some (foreign) people on the special project are doing.
It would need for the Ministry to organize the project better than the cotractors have (but that wouldnt be difficult).
In an election environment, this matter may become a bit of a "hot potato" as a lot of MELTA members have serious reservations about this project and its sustainability.

[princessofquitealot]

I'd be very interested to read this material. I looked at MELTA articles online but couldn't find anything on this topic. If they're hard copy versions only, could you refer me to the correct issues. Thanks.

[snollygoster]

Hippocampus posted on a different thread about this project:

Yeah. I applied for that, and they replied within a day and basically said, "Okay, come on then". I have learned to be very suspicious when a place wants no interview, no application... It's like they'll take anyone at all, so they can just chew you up and spit you out when they're through with you.

It seems you have it correct Hippocampus. Anyone will do-they are all expendable.

[Hifrommalaysia]

Hey Hippocampus,

Not sure if you're gonna read this, but perhaps you should reconsider about the job in Malaysia. Speaking purely for myself, it's a pretty great job.
I've read some things above and, well, that's too bad for them. In my case the job is wonderful -- best I've ever had, easily.

The salary lets you live large over here. You don't have any bosses breathing down your neck. The country's beautiful. The people are friendly. There's a relative lack of busy work. You can (kinda) set your own schedule. And best of all, you get to watch 2 dozen or so local teachers (all of whom are friendly as all heck) improve as teachers because of the work you're doing.

Basically, that's the job: make teachers into better teachers. So how well and smoothly that goes is on you. If you're the type who can handle that kind of autonomy, well, you should come.

The only real downside is that every couple of months you have to have a company meeting and see all your co-workers, a small percentage of whom have, shall we sad, a tendency to whine.

Cheers.

[yha]

I was thinking about applying last year but had a better offer. I�m now thinking again about Malaysia, but there are now a lot of negative comments on this forum compared to last year when I was looking.

I managed to directly contact, (through a friend of a friend), a person who was on the Malaysia programme with the SMR company. He had gone there when it first started up. Now that I�ve begun to dig further, I�m not hearing good things at all. The "hifrommalaysia" post above sounds very much like a management plant. I'm wondering whether the negative comments are related to just one company or to the other companies. It is often hard to find out the facts about the job when you are in another location but it does seem that many people have left and the salary is extremely poor plus high taxation and Malaysia, when I was last there as a tourist, was not a cheap place to live compared to other Asian countries. Not sure. Still thinking.

[KayuJati]

Not knowing too much about this English Trainer program, I have pretty much stayed away from these discussions since I couldn't add anything to them.

BUT, this morning I just met a lady from the U.K. who had recently quit the program. She indicated that it was being poorly managed and not worth sticking with; thus, she was fishing around for other work to tide her over until returning to the U.K.

Since that post above from "Hifrommalaysia" was his or her first (and only) post, perhaps we can coax him or her to give us some more details about his or her position, level of education, work experience and etc. This would allow people considering this program to know if the poster is a hoax or a truly satisfied trainer.

I suspect the former.

[Hifrommalaysia]

Hey Kayujati,

Ok, having re-read what I wrote, I guess I can see why it may have come across like some sort of viral marketing. Do people do that on here? Admittedly, I am completely new to this forum. And yes, that was my first ever post. Do people here always talk like that?

Anyway, to answer your question, I graduated from college in 05', did a year in Korea, went back to America, did a year of law school, realized I liked Asian life more, and then did another year in Korea and one in Thailand, and I've been in Malaysia since early last year. And somewhere along the line I got a TEFL certificate. Of the off chance that that makes me significantly worthy, my response....

I'm working here as a Mentor -- a title I hate -- level. It's the basic newbie level, and I tend to keep to myself, so I can't really speak much about big picture stuff. I really didn't mean to sound like some sort of apologist for any of the companies involved or the program as a whole. I only meant to say that the programs been good for me. I also want to double down on what I said about your experience here being what you make of it. It's true, there isn't a lot of management support/interference here. When the program started I think that really upset a bunch of people who are maybe used to significantly more structure in their life. Living here definitely asks you to go with the flow a bit, which is one of those things people always say they like until it's upon them.

Is the management a little disorganized? I guess. But it's probably much less slipshod than anything else in Malaysia -- especially the Ministry of Education -- and it really doesn't effect me one way or the other.

As for why there's so much turnover, it seems like most people who have left fall into one of three categories.

1) "Why isn't everything in my life unfolding as I prefer blah blah!"
2) People don't like their living situation, i.e. they got put in the conservative area. Basically, too rural, too quiet, too analogue, and generally too muslim. On one hand, it's perfectly understandable for people to be a little thrown off in such a different environment where beer is highly taxed, mixed gendered should mingle only when married, and you can't get a double-guarana mocha boisenberry latte on every corner. On the other hand, it's kinda what they signed up for.
3) And finally just cause life happens. People fall in/out of love. People get sick. Better opportunities come along.

To be fair, perhaps I just lucked out. I went with one company over the other two based simply on which help wanted ad I saw first, and got put in a (to me) nice location with a good manager through no credit of my own. I think one or two of the other states have bigger problems with overbearing managers, and I think one of the three companies is significantly behind the other two, succes-wise. That said, these are just things I've heard mentioned once or twice and then took to be certified gospel, as people do.

[KayuJati]

Hifrommalaysia,

Thank you for your reasoned response!

It is good to hear from someone satisfied with the English Trainer program because two other posters have had nothing good to say about it and they keep reminding us how bad it is, or was, for them. One keeps saying "This is my final post about this..." but then subsequent posts reiterate the same complaints.

FWIW, I am 16 years in this country and satisifed with my position (lecturer and research) and subjects (engineering taught in Malay). I am not an English teacher and never want to be one again (I did teach English for one year).

Life in Malaysia can be quite different for westerners, especially the east coast and rural areas. Achieving a conversational fluency in Malay does help, but the religion issue is always there and some ethnic groups are quite insular, not wanting outsiders to get too close.

It is too bad that the English Trainer program didn't get what they wanted in the original design, as per my reading of the newspaper indicated: Mature, experienced English teachers from overseas who wanted to live and experience rural Malaysian life. When I was a youngster, I probably wouldn't have wanted to be posted in the countryside either; now that I am older, I probably wouldn't mind the quiet life so much.

I know that I could succeed in that English Trainer program because I have done so in a similar setting for the past 12 years. But then, we long-term expats (>10 years) are the exception, not the rule. We have a saying, "I am so flexible that I am fluid."

It is good to know that you are not part of the management staff on damage control duties.

[prock67]

I posted on this forum about a year ago, being very happy in the position of mentor in Malaysia and wanting to offer a different perspective than lowlander. I believe lowlander left the position months ago, and how he/she continues to have information about the progress of the program, I can't speak to. However, I still find the job challenging and rewarding and frustrating and fun and stressful and wonderful, depending on the day. So, pretty much like every other ESL job I've ever had.

The company I work for has ironed out most of its growing pains and for the most part they stay out of our way and let us do our jobs. I recently filed taxes and I'm getting back about 50% of what was deducted from my paycheck last year. My teachers continue to improve and my relationships with each of them continues to strengthen and grow. There is much less turnover now and most of it falls into the category another poster listed above of "life happens."

There's an election soon and Malaysian politics is volatile, so who knows what can or will happen with regard to the program. But there is talk of its being extended beyond 2013 and the doom and gloom, oh-no-we-might-be-out-of-a-job-next-month predictions have yet to come true.

So, if you can handle life in a rural area of a conservative Muslim country, the job is just as good, or better, as any other. If you can't save beer and women for the weekends, Thailand is probably a better choice for you.

[snollygoster]

Well Prock, you certainly paint a very rosy picture of this project when some others have a less than rosy picture to paint. Quite a "toe the company line" perception actually.
I wonder if the picture would be less rosy if it wasn't for the fact you are in a senior managerial position with SMR, with a salary that is considerably higher than the other mentors posting here, have a far better car than they have, better housing allowances, and no teachers to mentor, plus shares in the company, and a far better negotiated contract than most?
Maybe those "perks" make the job a little more appealing.
Another poster suggested that SMR management were posting a "rosy" picture to lure would-be employees.
Isn't it true that SMR recently called for applications, received about 120, and rejected 110 because the applications were of a standard that was too low to put to the Education Ministry? and isn't it also true that SMR management recently submitted 4 applications to the Ministry to fill a position from which SMR dismissed a perfectly capable mentor and all 4 were rejected as below standard? Maybe this is a sign of the times- SMR seems to burn off the capable people and then attempts to satisfy the Ministry with less than suitable candidates. Looks like a downhill spiral that must inevitable end in a disaster.
That of course does not mean every mentor is unhappy, there are still some who find the challenge stimulating-good for them!

[prock67]

Oh for goodness sake. I don't work for SMR. I've heard they are an absolute nightmare, actually. Why is it that if anyone experiences job satisfaction, they are automatically labeled a management stooge? Management is what management is and the project works sometimes in spite of them. My point being, it works. I'm happy here. I've been happy here for over a year and I intend to be happy here until the end of my contract, when I collect a significant bonus and move on. I'm sorry you weren't happy here and I hope that you've moved on to greener pastures.

May I ask why you're still so invested in ensuring everyone has a negative opinion of the project after you no longer have a stake in it?

[prock67]

P.S. My car totally sucks, just like everyone else's. But it generally goes from point A to point B and it's free, so I try not to kvetch too much.