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Where are the jobs?
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kinshachi



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: Where are the jobs? Reply with quote

I've never seen anything like it. There's always been demand for teachers, no matter the situation, up until this year, and now Sydney's a ghost town. Even the temp/relief companies aren't hiring. Did closing the immigration loopholes cause that much damage? Supposedly, the downturn is over here, unemployment's going down, and the private education sector has expanded 20% in the last year. Yet in the last six months, there's barely been a handful of ads. What's going on?
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Insubordination



Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and the private education sector has expanded 20% in the last year


Really, where did you read that? Certainly not true of the tertiary sector. It's true, nobody is advertising. It used to be that you could get a job in 24 hours.

There is a huge oversupply of teachers and a lot of talented people have left the industry. Using industry contacts is probably the only way to change jobs.

I read this article in the 'Herald' the other day and found it online too. http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/turning-off-the-tap-20100915-15csg.html
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kinshachi



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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qcat79



Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:04 am    Post subject: curious Reply with quote

even if you were to find a job there in Melbourne or Sydney, what are the going rates for work for somebody that has a B.A., Celta and years of experience teaching in Korea??

could anyone give me a general cost of living scale for living in one of those cities?? i mean, could you survive off a ESL teacher's salary there?

thanks.
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kinshachi



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can find out your proper pay rate here: http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/finding-the-right-pay/pages/default.aspx
The level you're entitled to can be found in the Modern Award available on the same site. A BA + CELTA starts you on level 2, +1 level per year teaching ELICOS in Australia, +1 level per 2 years of "other" teaching (to a max of 3 levels).

Cost of living is truly shocking! I've been in Japan for the last 4 years, and it seems to me the price for everything has doubled since I left, especially rents. You'll be looking at $350-400/week for a half-decent one bedroom flat anywhere in Sydney. You can survive, but you'd be hard pressed to save like you can in Korea...
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qcat79



Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow! thanks for the info. seems like it might be tough trying to live there on roughly A$22 per hour coupled with a really tight market. i'd still like to get the hell out of here when i have enough saved and make my way down there to see what i can get into though.

thanks again, k
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Where are the jobs? Reply with quote

kinshachi wrote:
I've never seen anything like it. There's always been demand for teachers, no matter the situation, up until this year, and now Sydney's a ghost town. Even the temp/relief companies aren't hiring. Did closing the immigration loopholes cause that much damage? Supposedly, the downturn is over here, unemployment's going down, and the private education sector has expanded 20% in the last year. Yet in the last six months, there's barely been a handful of ads. What's going on?


Yes, I sent my resume to my agent in Sydney and she wrote back that there wasn't ONE job on her books. It's a worry. I think 4 of the main issues causing this drop off are: 1. fierce competition from other countries; 2. the new immigration rules; 3. the fact that you need to deposit $150,000 in the bank; and 4. the perception that Australia discriminates against international students.

There will come a time when ESL will die out. This is already happening as for-profit companies penetrate every nook and cranny of the globe, sweeping up every available student with aggressive marketing strategies and inflated promises. Unfortunately, many of these schools leave a bitter taste in the mouth of international students, who return to their home countries out-of-pocket and angered by the shabby treatment they received from these Mickey Mouse operations. However, there will come a time when students from China and India will no longer need to travel overseas for an education because they'll have their own prestigious schools that are well-funded and attract the big academic superstars. It's just a matter of time . . .
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Insubordination



Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree strongly with your four points.

1. fierce competition from other countries;

Our dollar is on par with the US. Australia is only a preference when it's half-price.

2. the new immigration rules;

This is the worst thing. The government doesn't seem to be taking the industry seriously. They're just using anti-immigrant sentiments to retain their popularity, ripping them off on all the hairdressing/chef courses was criminal.

3. the fact that you need to deposit $150,000 in the bank;

What a joke. Also we take months to issue a visa. The US and Canada do it a lot quicker.

4. the perception that Australia discriminates against international students.

That could genuinely be argued.

We have grown fat on them for too long and have taken them for granted. Now they're voting with their feet. Off to countries which actually want them. I would also add that all the private college closures haven't help. Agents aren't recommending Australia anymore.


Last edited by Insubordination on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I met one person recently whose opinion after travelling was that the global downturn is not affecting the USA, probably not Canada and not the UK/European ESL markets. Business is supposed to be booming though I find that a bit hard to believe. I heard though that this summer has had the one of the biggest intakes in summer English programmes ever in the UK. That's only the short-term market of course but that's always been the case. I wonder if Australia and NZ are most affected by geography and a high dollar. The dollar exchange rate, as Insubordination posted, has an enormous impact on who's willing to go the distance.

Re: Australia; recent bad publicity about attacks on Indians and the changes in immigration policy has obviously had an impact but I think it'd still be a problem anyway. I've sometimes talked to students all keen to set off to Oz - either just travelling or wanting to move to Sydney etc. They sometimes complain about NZ being beautiful but boring. I've been interested to note that after their trip, some of those same students have been noticeably more enthusiastic about living in NZ. They won't say why exactly but make comments about Auckland etc. being 'friendly'. It might just be a big city impersonal thing, but I wonder if they experience more obvious racism/ hostility (not that NZ is at all immune from that).
That alone will carry a lot of weight and once a place's reputation gets muddied (however unfairly) mud tends to stick. Having said that Oz still seems to be sought after by certain 'travel' markets like the Japanese.
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kinshachi



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems things are picking up a bit more these days...

Those four points are all good points. I think one we can add to them is the fact that the GFC has had a big impact in a lot of places, and a lot of people just don't have the money to study overseas anymore. This is certainly what I saw in Japan over the past two years, and part of the reason I am back here, since my school in Japan went bankrupt thanks to the massive drop in student numbers, especially those planning to study overseas. I think the fact that Australia, and especially Sydney, has become so damned expensive recently has had an effect, too. It's a double whammy of a strong dollar and rampant inflation.

Insubordination, you make a good point about what the government did to international students being criminal. They scored some cheap political points, but shot themselves in the foot, as not only the loss of students but also the hit to Australia's reputation will cost us billions over the near future. However, those changes were something that needed to be done, and should have been done years ago, before an industry dedicated to exploiting visa rorts was allowed to develop. Ten of thousands of students coming here to do their Diploma of Permanent Residency might have been a nice little earner, but it only led to the expansion of the Mickey Mouse end of the market - crappy schools and crappy jobs. I, for one, won't be sad to see them go (the schools and their agents, not the students).
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9589
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

met one person recently whose opinion after travelling was that the global downturn is not affecting the USA, probably not Canada and not the UK/European ESL markets. Business is supposed to be booming though I find that a bit hard to believe.


Hmm. As I live and work in the Canadian and Western EU, I can attest that business is down. I wouldn't myself presume to pass judgement on the market in regions I was just travelling in....
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The person I heard that from is the director of a (reputable) chain language school who visited related schools overseas. That opinion based on some collected facts and figures (in particular to do with the UK market) may certainly not be accurate and probably far too sweeping, I doubted it myself. However, I don't see why travelling somewhere and taking note of how markets you have a vested interest in are doing is in itself presumptuous. Are you only allowed to have an opinion about places if you live there?
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12853
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear artemisia,

It's the difference between a snapshot and a full-length movie. I find it hard to believe that anyone could actually say that " . . . the global downturn is not affecting the USA . . ." That's totally absurd.
What's been happening here in the southwest USA is an increase in "reverse immigration" as thousands of Hispanic newcomers (legal and illegal,) unable to find work, have returned to their countries of origin.
I've been teaching ESL here for seven years now, ever since I returned from Saudi, and if this "one person" think ESL in the US isn't being adversely affected by the economic downturn, send him/her here. I'd be glad to show him/her lots of evidence to the contrary.

Welfare's booming, unemployment's booming, sales of handguns are booming, but ESL is definitely not booming.

Regards,
John
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Welfare's booming, unemployment's booming, sales of handguns are booming

Smile Smile

Yes indeed. What I'd heard/ read, too. It seems to be doom 'n gloom everywhere. Point taken (I'll send him off your direction so he can bone up a bit!).
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinshachi wrote:
It seems things are picking up a bit more these days...


Really? I just had this from a recruitment agency in Sydney:

You may or may not know that there has been a collapse in international student numbers in Australia for a whole raft of reasons.

As a result we are not seeing the sort of positions that we were when we last were in contact. This is mostly because they are being filled from the vast number of under employed teachers looking for work.

Sorry, but Sydney is not really the best place for employment at the moment.
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