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ancient_dweller · Joined: 12 Aug 2010 Posts: 415 Location: Woodland Bench

Seems the Brits don't like yanks giving them advice...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14519187

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:24 am Post subject:

Can see his point. To still have unarmed police is quite an achievement, even with the appalling nature of recent events. To all those who complain about police brutality, spend some time in another country and see what that really means, e.g. Turkey, Russia - even the US.... hic.

johnslat · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject:

Dear ancient_dweller,

It's not exactly unsolicited advice:

"David Cameron has called for the former New York police chief to help address violence in English cities."

I suppose the former New York police chief could have refused the request, though.

Regards,
John

ancient_dweller · Joined: 12 Aug 2010 Posts: 415 Location: Woodland Bench

the article is about police disliking Cameron's decision...

johnslat · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:25 pm Post subject:

Dear ancient_dweller,

Yes, I know that. But I think your description:

"Seems the Brits don't like yanks giving them advice."

was misleading. Well, it was to me, anyway. What's happening (as you probably know) is that the "blame game" is being played there between the police and the politicians. By asking for advice, Cameron is implying that the blame rests entirely upon the British police.

Regards,
John

GuestBob · Joined: 18 Jun 2011 Posts: 270

Cameron reminds me of a substitute teacher trying to discipline a class of unruly school boys.

"I am very disappointed in you Britain! Do you behave like this for your normal Prime Minister! Well?"

Dedicated · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK

David Cameron and the government have identified the growth of gangs as a key factor in the riots and is recruiting high-profile American anti-gang experts, such as Bill Bratton, to help bring them to heel.

While senior British police officers openly resent that move, analysts of gang culture say it seems logical to seek American assistance, because today's British gangs consciously ape American gang ambitions and style, from the bling to the lingo. They talk in a street patois shaped by U.S rap lyrics, use noms de guerre lifted straight from American gangster films and crime dramas, and choose such icons as Don Corleone, Al Pacino's Scarface or Baltimore ganglord Stringer Bell of "The Wire" TV series as their avatars on social-networking sites.

These teenage gangsters are creating their own criminal worlds, and in their minds, it's very much an Americanized world. When they talk about the police, it's "the Feds" or "the 5-0" as in Hawaii 5-0.

The UK police are sceptical, though, "Do we want to learn about gangs from an area of America (Los Angeles) that has 400 gangs? If you've got 400 gangs, then you're not being very effective". The style of policing in U.S and levels of violence are fundamentally different from UK, where are police are not normally armed.

ancient_dweller · Joined: 12 Aug 2010 Posts: 415 Location: Woodland Bench

one thing that is odd. In the US (richest country in the world) they have a lot of people in poverty. No welfare state to pay the bills in the tough times. In theory that should mean there are less gangs in Britain as there is no need to behave in a lawless and uncivilised way. In the US, they are so racist and fascist that poor people are ridiculed rather than supported. People don't like feeling helpless so they create these gangs to protect themselves and feel important. Britain's welfare state means in theory there should be fewer such gangs.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject:

National dividends are the key!

johnslat · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject:

Dear ancient_dweller,

"In the US, they are so racist and fascist that poor people are ridiculed rather than supported."

Ah yes - we racists and fascists in the US (presumably the "they" is composed of all of us who are not poor) delight in ridiculing the poor. That's why we have this on the Statue of Liberty:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

How else could we be assured of constant amusement?

Regards,
John

eurobound · Joined: 04 Apr 2011 Posts: 155

GuestBob · Joined: 18 Jun 2011 Posts: 270

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:29 am Post subject:

Wasn't quite the UK police there - the RUC. But in addition to them, the UK authorities were fully prepared to use the army, plastic bullets, tear gas, armoured cars, even the occasional tank to combat civil unrest in Ulster, not to mention the odd shoot-to-kill episode courtesy of the Paras. Don't think that would go down so well with the folks on the mainland, but would certainly have ended the actions of the poorly organised and barely armed local rioters.

GuestBob · Joined: 18 Jun 2011 Posts: 270

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject:

In Scotland? Could be wrong, but I dimly remember some rhetoric about no operations in Scotland and Wales - bonds of Celtic sympathy, or some such... Can't quite recall. Was so long ago, hic! But in any case the UK police didn't exactly shine when it came to dealing with this threat. Birmingham Six, Guildford Four, anyone?