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Moving to Warsaw (Mokotow) on October 8th
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Chicago60640



Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:50 pm    Post subject: Moving to Warsaw (Mokotow) on October 8th Reply with quote

My husband and I (and our two cats) will be moving to Warsaw in less than a month. We are moving there because of his new job, but he/we won't be there with a work visa. It's an odd arrangement, but he's not working for a Polish employer or working on any Polish projects, so he won't receive a work visa (which means that I won't, either). We'll be sure to leave the EU every 90 days to renew our visitor visas.

I'm a professional teacher by training (certified K-8 ) and have a master's degree in linguistics with an ESL endorsement. I do not, however, have a CELTA. But I do have a few years of classroom experience and just recently spent a year in Morocco on a Fulbright teaching English at a university.

I'm most interested in being able to teach in a university setting, if that's at all possible. We'll be living in Mokotow (on Szucha, in case anyone else in this forum lives nearby), so the following schools/language centers would be ideal.

Foreign Language Center of Warsaw University of Technology
http://www.oja.sjo.pw.edu.pl/

Polish Japanese Institute of Information Technology
http://www.pjwstk.edu.pl/en/

Does anyone know of the likelihood of being able to teach a few classes at either one of the language centers associated with these schools? I know that the fall term start on October 1st, so I'm probably too late, but it never hurts to ask. Assuming that these two aren't realistic options, can you recommend an English school that is more focused on learning the language than selling seats in a classroom? And will my visitor visa make it a lot more difficult to find work?

Any other advice related to the subject would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
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simon_porter00



Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 443
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not sure about finding work at the universities - best bet is to keep trying them and be persistant.

The schengen visa doesn't work as easily as you suggest. It's something like 90 days in the EU followed by 180 days out of the EU, then 90 days again. Please read these boards carefully/contact the Polish embassy to find out the details.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9441
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We'll be sure to leave the EU every 90 days to renew our visitor visas.


Technically, you have to stay out of the Schengen zone for 90 days to renew your visitor visa. The border run option worked reliably up until January 2009, but that loophole was legally closed. Mind you, Polish border guards may or may not apply Schengen zone rules - I believe there are some earlier threads on this board that discuss being allowed back into the country without staying out for three months.


http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_4361.html


This whole thing sounds very odd - what (reputable) company will send you somewhere, yet you will not be eligible for legal working visas?

Yes, your lack of work visa will impact your job search. Any school that wants to hire you will have to jump through the legal hoops to get you a work permit. They may do this for you, but they will likely want more than a commitment to 'teach a few classes' and of course there may well not be any openings.
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Chicago60640



Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The border run option worked reliably up until January 2009, but that loophole was legally closed.


Confusion and mistake on my part--thanks for the clarification.

Quote:
This whole thing sounds very odd - what (reputable) company will send you somewhere, yet you will not be eligible for legal working visas?


Yes, it does sound odd--and it probably is rather unusual. Basically, my husband works remotely, but chooses to visit with the folks in the Warsaw office. His job is not, however, related to the work being done in Warsaw. And he travels about 60% of the time--so he'll be outside of the Schengen area for more than 90 days out of 180.

When we were in Morocco, border runs were, believe it or not, the advice of the State Department.

Quote:
but they will likely want more than a commitment to 'teach a few classes'


My preference would actually be to teach full-time, but it was my understanding that such positions were much more difficult to obtain. We've already signed a lease on an apartment, so I know we'll be there for at least a year. Would you say that I'd be better off looking for full-time employment then?
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9441
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, seek full-time work. A school can get you a legal work permit, though it's a hassle for them and for you. Your qualifications should help.

Basically, you will have 90 days from entering the country to get a legal work permit, unless you're planning to either be there illegally or to leave the zone for 90 days with your husband. Full-time employment is likely your only chance to be there legally, from the sound of it.

Morocco is a different kettle of fish than the schengen zone!!
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 521

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Moving to Warsaw (Mokotow) on October 8th Reply with quote

Chicago60640 wrote:
My husband and I (and our two cats) will be moving to Warsaw in less than a month. We are moving there because of his new job, but he/we won't be there with a work visa. It's an odd arrangement, but he's not working for a Polish employer or working on any Polish projects, so he won't receive a work visa (which means that I won't, either). We'll be sure to leave the EU every 90 days to renew our visitor visas.


I can assure you that you're going to have trouble with this. It should be trivial for them to arrange for him to work through the Warsaw office (and thus, get a residence permit - which will also cover you and any children) - the fact that they're not doing this is very suspicious.

Bear in mind that if you're caught, even when leaving the country, the punishment is an instant year ban from the entire Schengen zone and a permanent record on the Schengen database that you were caught. Is it worth the risk?

As for making the border run - do you really want to risk being left on a random border, far away from your home? From Warsaw, the closest 'run' available is either to the UK (who might pick up on what you're doing and refuse you entry anyway) - or to Ukraine. I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck on the Ukrainian border!

Quote:
And will my visitor visa make it a lot more difficult to find work


Not necessarily, as long as you're within the initial 90 days. After that, because you can't 'upgrade' from being illegal to legal, then yes, you'll have trouble finding something credible.

Dodgy schools will have no issues, however.
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Chicago60640



Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's really nothing to be suspicious about, as he has been working for the company for a few weeks already, had been on the road for them, and is receiving a salary with benefits. I do appreciate the concern, though.

Yes, his company could arrange for a visa, but it would likely be a business visa because his compensation and work is from/for the New York office. But let's assume that the visa issue has been resolved. In that case, are there any particular schools that I should be looking into?
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Sgt Bilko



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 125
Location: POLAND

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worked for a while on a teacher training course affiliated to the university. Anyone who wants to teach English has to have this qualification (3 years) which involved all sorts of things (English and American literature, Grammar, Geography, History etc). Most of the lessons were taught by Polish university professors but they liked to have a native speaker for conversation and British culture. I have a CELTA and DELTA but they weren't interested in them at all, just my degree (completely unrelated subject).

It was the NKJO (Nauczycielskie Kolegium Języków Obcych). Worth checking out although, as you say, they may already have found people.
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Chicago60640



Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this the place you are referring to:

http://www.nkjo.wroc.pl/

Is it only located in Wroclaw, or is there a branch in Warsaw, also?
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Sgt Bilko



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 125
Location: POLAND

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine was in Opole but I guess they're country wide
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever your husband's arrangement, you will most likely have problems finding work. You need a work visa to work here. You could open a sole proprietorship once you arrive. This would allow you to work. One of the questions schools usually ask Americans at an interview is "What's your status here?"
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Jack Walker



Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chicago60640 wrote:
There's really nothing to be suspicious about, as he has been working for the company for a few weeks already, had been on the road for them, and is receiving a salary with benefits. I do appreciate the concern, though.

Yes, his company could arrange for a visa, but it would likely be a business visa because his compensation and work is from/for the New York office. But let's assume that the visa issue has been resolved. In that case, are there any particular schools that I should be looking into?




The whole situation confuses me.I can't help you with the Warsaw job thing but from a visa perspective it confuses all of us.

Your husband works on the road for a company with an office in Warsaw,doesn't actually work for this office in Warsaw or have any business dealings with them, but wants to pop in occasionally for a herbata around the water cooler and gets paid from a company in New York and is only eligible for a business visa?

The border hopping thing isn't going to work in the long run over there.I would think any reputable company woyld make sure its employees are doing things legally and correctly while in a foreign country.

I guess you don't really have to live in Warsaw but want to anyway?

It all sounds odd for some reason.
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Chicago60640



Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, it's odd. It's unusual. But that doesn't mean that it's illegal.

Exactly, we are electing to live in Warsaw. We selected it on a whim. I guess the best way to think of the situation is that he's a contractor that does most of his work remotely, so we can live pretty much anywhere. I thought Warsaw would be an interesting place (and from what he tells me, it is).
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1030

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chicago60640,

you can live ANYWHERE you want.....and you choose Warsaw, Poland?

to each their own, i guess.
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems you're missing the whole concept that it is, in fact, illegal to stay in the E.U. for more than 90 out of 180 days and that it is illegal to just go work there.

Plain and simple: There are many people who want to live and work in the E.U. It really doesn't matter what your job is or what you plan to do there. The FACT of the matter is that if YOU plan on staying in the country for more than 90 out of 180 days YOU will need a residency card. Obtaining work is a bit different as you may be able to find private students who pay cash or work for a dodgy school etc. If you want to work legally you will also need a work visa which must be obtained by your employer. As an American you can open a sole proprietorship which allows you to work in Poland for whoever you want and obtain the residency card. This is probably the best idea for you and there are threads on here about how to go about this.
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