Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Teaching Elementary in Latin America?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Latin America Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9132
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Try the middle east or asia. You'll get more money and respect as a teacher there than you will ANYWHERE in Latin
America.

GC, I don't think that your EFL history includes personal experience in either the ME or Asia - correct?

Advice based on direct personal experience is obviously usually the most reliable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Irish Lad



Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
Landon wrote:
Yes, but we are not Brittish, we are American. Surely we cannot work in a Brittish or Canadian or Irish school, correct? We dont sound like or look like they do, we dont understand their History or government, their measurement system is weird =), and dont have documentation from that country. You dont want me teaching your high school kids the metric system or how that Brittish government works, that is for sure.



You don't need docs from that country, you'll be working in another country and they'll get you the visa. And you couldn't teach HS kids, you don't have a teaching icense. Your wife could teach primary kids though. In British, American, Canadian, etc schools.



What countries, specifically, are you talking about here, naturegirl321? Peru? Korea? Do you know? Because it is certainly not the case universally. I can tell you from personal experience that it is not true in Hungary (okay, maybe not the best example for Latin America!) nor is it true in Mexico, which requires a 4-year degree and an SEP Teacher's Diploma course, which is a 180-hour (more or less) course. And it didn't even require this until recently.

I could go out on a limb and suggest several other Latin American countries where it is also not the case, but since I don't know this from my own direct personal experience, I will not.

Once again, overgeneralising misleads people. Take spiral78's very good advice, and the information you post will be much more reliable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8829
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landon wrote:
I dont exactly how much they deduct from her but I learned a long time ago that taxes are a part of life. I have never filled out a form or had someone ask me how much I NET a year. If I want to live and work somewhere I have to play by their rules and pay their taxes. And one of the most important things you have to remember about your mom is the US teachers retirement. State retirement accounts is where a large portion of those deductions are going. Your mom is packing away a huge chunk of cash towards her retirement every month and she will be set for life if she completes the contract for her states retirement. US teachers are known for retireing young when these benefits kick in. My next door neighbor just retired from public school at the age of 52.


A part of life, yes, that's why it's important to talk abotu AFTER taxes and deductions. If I make 100K but am taxed at 60%, I'd rather take the job that only pays 50K and doesn't tax me, right?

Getting certified in Spanish and EFL or ESL doens't help much in the intl school route. She should look at chemistry, physics, maths, etc.

My mom will never retire, PS teaching is her second career. before she did private piano lessons. She can't afford to retire.

How long were you in Ro for? When?

The fact that you have never talked about how much you net each year means that you've never worked abroad. And I think you HAVE done it. You file US taxes, right? You know the amount you put down is how much you NET. Not how much you're making before taxes. Why the heck would you give them even more?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8829
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew I put it somewhere, but here,

Realise that MOST intl schools don't require you to have X nationality (with the exception of some like Brunei and the EU, right off the top of my head).

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=92040&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=brunei&start=15
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Landon



Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
Landon wrote:
I dont exactly how much they deduct from her but I learned a long time ago that taxes are a part of life. I have never filled out a form or had someone ask me how much I NET a year. If I want to live and work somewhere I have to play by their rules and pay their taxes. And one of the most important things you have to remember about your mom is the US teachers retirement. State retirement accounts is where a large portion of those deductions are going. Your mom is packing away a huge chunk of cash towards her retirement every month and she will be set for life if she completes the contract for her states retirement. US teachers are known for retireing young when these benefits kick in. My next door neighbor just retired from public school at the age of 52.


A part of life, yes, that's why it's important to talk abotu AFTER taxes and deductions. If I make 100K but am taxed at 60%, I'd rather take the job that only pays 50K and doesn't tax me, right?

Getting certified in Spanish and EFL or ESL doens't help much in the intl school route. She should look at chemistry, physics, maths, etc.

My mom will never retire, PS teaching is her second career. before she did private piano lessons. She can't afford to retire.

How long were you in Ro for? When?

The fact that you have never talked about how much you net each year means that you've never worked abroad. And I think you HAVE done it. You file US taxes, right? You know the amount you put down is how much you NET. Not how much you're making before taxes. Why the heck would you give them even more?



It is not the JOB that is taxing you. It is the government. And everyone is in the same boat.

As far as I know, in the US, ALL salaries are discussed in terms of gross. That IS how much the job is going to pay you. If I take a job that pays $100K, that is exactly how much I earn and exactly how much am going to get. Taxes are manditory and for everyone. They have nothing to do with the agreement you made with your employer.

Yes, tax policies differ from country to country and some seem better than others. Mostly, this is refering to income tax rates which is only one piece of the puzzle. I am pretty sure no matter what method that particular country uses, they are getting their fair share from you, if you are working and living legally. As you know, Peru gets you with the 19% VAT. The salary is not so bad as long as you dont need to buy anything. Wink


Last edited by Landon on Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8829
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landon wrote:
It is not the JOB is not taxing you. It is the government. And everyone is in the same boat.

As far as I know, in the US, ALL salaries are discussed in terms of gross. That IS how much the job is going to pay you. If I take a job that pays $100K, that is exactly how much I earn and exactly how much am going to get. Taxes are manditory and for everyone. They have nothing to do with the agreement you made with your employer.


Not everyone is in the same boat. I'm on my second year of LEGALLY not paying taxes, http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8802.pdf

And taxation is different. Like I said, in Peru it' was about 25% to 30%, here in Korea it's 10%, which is why it's helpful, when talking about OVERSEAS jobs to know the net, does that make sense?

Taxes aren't mandatory either, look into the Sch SE with the US. You can make some money without paying taxes.

And while in the US people talk about gross, you want to work overseas, right? Gotta change Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Landon



Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
Landon wrote:
It is not the JOB is not taxing you. It is the government. And everyone is in the same boat.

As far as I know, in the US, ALL salaries are discussed in terms of gross. That IS how much the job is going to pay you. If I take a job that pays $100K, that is exactly how much I earn and exactly how much am going to get. Taxes are manditory and for everyone. They have nothing to do with the agreement you made with your employer.


Not everyone is in the same boat. I'm on my second year of LEGALLY not paying taxes, http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8802.pdf

And taxation is different. Like I said, in Peru it' was about 25% to 30%, here in Korea it's 10%, which is why it's helpful, when talking about OVERSEAS jobs to know the net, does that make sense?

Taxes aren't mandatory either, look into the Sch SE with the US. You can make some money without paying taxes.

And while in the US people talk about gross, you want to work overseas, right? Gotta change Wink


I am no expert on international taxation that is for sure, but I cannot believe that you are gainfully employed and living in a country and are legally not paying tax to ANYONE? You are paying someone, somewhere, somehow, now or later to use their country for your gain.

That link is for a Unitied States IRS form. You are living and working in Korea correct? Are they satisfied with your arangement with the the US IRS. I wouldnt think they would care in the least.

Yes, in the US is it POSSIBLE to earn extrememly little income and not pay INCOME tax. But, as I said before, income tax is just a piece of the puzzle.

Every developed country and government is going to get theirs no matter how artificially inflated your "net" income looks. Foreigners dont get to come and live and work for free. Do they?

I have even more research to do now. Thanks. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 801

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the world of international finance Wink

NG is absolutely right, you need to think about your income differently now. The figures you need to know are what your net income will be, and how that translates into buying/saving power according to the cost of living in each country.

For example, in Ecuador, the income tax I pay varies according to my visa, and my employer's tax code. So I have different rates deducted on different jobs. It is usuallly 10%. However, I am able to claim it back, so effectively I pay zero income tax here. I don't have to pay UK tax on it (that's a USA thing) so I effectively don't pay any income tax.

If I was being taxed at 20% or 30% it would make a huge difference to the amount I need to earn to survive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fladude



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 432

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of the Central American and Mexican Int. Schools are waiving the 2 year requirement due to the difficulty in getting teachers. That probably sounds crazy in today's economy, but there are a lot more International Schools than there used to be, and on top of that this area has a strong reputation for violence (which is well deserved, at least in places). Schools also tend to be in the big cities, which are also typically the places where the violence is. I understand that is not true of Mexico per se, but it is certainly true in Central America (except maybe Panama or Costa Rica). Cities like Managua, Guatemala City, and San Salvador are all basically unsafe and tend to lead the list of the most violent cities outside of a war zone.

Still though you are better off getting the two years of experience first in the USA. Once you have it, you have it. Its hard to get a job but there are always places hiring (you might not like working there, but time will pass).

As for taxes, some countries don't have an income tax, or not a significant one, and others offer a different tax based on your visa. I am currently living and working in LA and pay no income tax. Of course I still have to pay sales taxes, import taxes and other random taxes which affect everyone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Landon



Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HLJHLJ wrote:
Welcome to the world of international finance Wink

NG is absolutely right, you need to think about your income differently now. The figures you need to know are what your net income will be, and how that translates into buying/saving power according to the cost of living in each country.

For example, in Ecuador, the income tax I pay varies according to my visa, and my employer's tax code. So I have different rates deducted on different jobs. It is usuallly 10%. However, I am able to claim it back, so effectively I pay zero income tax here. I don't have to pay UK tax on it (that's a USA thing) so I effectively don't pay any income tax.

If I was being taxed at 20% or 30% it would make a huge difference to the amount I need to earn to survive.


I will say it again, that I dont have a clue what I am talking about. Still learning.

I have to put things into logical sense. I still have the question of why would Ecuador EVER give you a visa to live and work there? Really, all you are doing is using the skills you gained from another place to take money out of that country's economy. Especially if you just stay for a year or two and move on. I completely understand tourist visas. You are traveling and BRINGING foreign dollars into the economy and then leaving. But a workers visa? You RECEIVE money from their ecomony and give nothing back?

If citizens and workers are not paying taxes, who is running the country? Who takes care of the roads you drive on and keeps the city safe, clean and functioning? That money comes from somewhere. Still doesnt make sense to me. I cant imagine why any countries are letting people come in, take money from their citizens, live a tax free life, stick a lot of the savings into their own bank accounts and then move back home again to support a foreign economy.

I am amazed. Ive got to figure this one out. What a secret. I am sure that other of us Americans do not know that they could be doing this. We just keep grinding and cursing the government for bleeding us dry. But then again, I guess our reward is being able to live and work in this country.


Last edited by Landon on Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1082
Location: 1748'N 9746'W

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two things you've over looked in your reasoning Landon.
1, most of us are not taking money out of Latin America. We're spending most of what we earn in the countries we're living in. For some of us, we have well paying jobs in that our local buying power is much greater than it would be if we were earning 2 to 5 times more in our home country than in Latin America.
2, we have a skill that the country wants/needs.


In my case in Mexico, I do pay income tax, about 20%! but what I get after that nets me only about half of what I would make a public school teacher in my home state, but I can afford a full time live in nanny, private school for my kids, I paid cash for my car, I've nearly paid off my mortgage, and my husband is a full time graduate student. We'd be up to our eyeballs in debt if we lived in the US. Instead, in a few months time we'll be debt free.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8829
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landon wrote:
I am no expert on international taxation that is for sure, but I cannot believe that you are gainfully employed and living in a country and are legally not paying tax to ANYONE? You are paying someone, somewhere, somehow, now or later to use their country for your gain.

That link is for a Unitied States IRS form. You are living and working in Korea correct? Are they satisfied with your arangement with the the US IRS. I wouldnt think they would care in the least.

Every developed country and government is going to get theirs no matter how artificially inflated your "net" income looks. Foreigners dont get to come and live and work for free. Do they?

I have even more research to do now. Thanks. Very Happy

DId you read the link for the IRs? Pub 54 as well? Perfectly legal what I'm doing. Ask any accountant. Or go straight to the source: the IRS.

I live and work in Asia, yes. The IRS gave me the correct form to allow me to get out of taxes here and I don't have to pay the US either. (At least not on my regular salary. I'm self employed PT as well, making VERY little, but thtat's a whole other issue).

And yes, my ASian employer is satisfied with the legal arrangements with the IRS. I was taxed the first 3 months, gave them the IRS paper, got ALL My taxes back and haven't paid them since. It's good for two years. And of course they care in the least. That's like saying they won't honour a US passport, becuase it's not Korean. It's an international agreement.

I don't pay taxes here, but I pay pension and medical. Thousands of Americans get out of taxes (up to a certain amount, for a bit) through the 8802. And yes, foreigners DO live and work for free, up to a point. I still pay taxes on everything I BUY here, just not on my salary.

It's good for 2 years, starting next March I'll pay taxes here.

Read the info, call the IRS (if they'll answer the phone). I've filed taxes internationally for nearly 10 years. If you want to live overseas, look into it
2555 and 2555ez
6166 and 8802
1116
FBAR

Echoing what MotherF says, buying power is different. In Peru we bought our first house before I was 25. We bought it with CASH, no mortgage, , no loans, nothing. We also had two SUVs, again, bought with cash. You lived in Peru, you know about salaries and how much things cost. My parents still haven't paid off their mortgage on a house they bought 30 years ago. I also work "FT" (20 hours a week for 32 weeks a year) and my husband doesn't have any income. I've taken 3 intl vacations this year to 3 different continents, paid cash for a MA degree, and just spent way too much, in my opinion, on a birth. YET: I have no debts whatsoever.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: do more research.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8829
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landon wrote:
I will say it again, that I dont have a clue what I am talking about. Still learning.

I have to put things into logical sense. I still have the question of why would Ecuador EVER give you a visa to live and work there? Really, all you are doing is using the skills you gained from another place to take money out of that country's economy. But a workers visa? You RECEIVE money from their ecomony and give nothing back?

If citizens and workers are not paying taxes, who is running the country? I cant imagine why any countries are letting people come in, take money from their citizens, live a tax free life, stick a lot of the savings into their own bank accounts and then move back home again to support a foreign economy.

I am amazed. Ive got to figure this one out. What a secret. I am sure that other of us Americans do not know that they could be doing this.


Landon wrote:
I am no expert on international taxation that is for sure, but I cannot believe that you are gainfully employed and living in a country and are legally not paying tax to ANYONE? Foreigners dont get to come and live and work for free. Do they?

Then don't. If you're not an expert, just listen to the advice. Most of us have been doing this for years, decades. We know what we're talking about.

Taxes are different all over the world. Some places have agreements with the US, some don't. The US is the real stickler though. My UK friends don't have to file UK taxes, lioke Americans do.

And we don't live for free. We add money to the economy, we rent houses, buy cars, food, etc. We're paying taxes that way if not through our salaries. And why woulnd't Ecuador, or anywhere, give you a visa? Think about it, logically if you will. A foreigner will make more (just an example) than an Ecuadorian. Therefore that foreigner will spend more and spur the ecnomy more than an Ecuadorian. So they give the foreigner a visa. Simple logic. Yes, peopel send money OUT of the country, but they probably spend just as much, if not more, in country.

and it's not a secret to working abroad. Some peopel can do it and live better, but there are far more that make more money and enjoy life more when they live at home. YOu don't have to deal with cr@p like culture shock, language, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9132
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Then don't. If you're not an expert, just listen to the advice. Most of us have been doing this for years, decades. We know what we're talking about



Just listen up, Landon Very Happy . I'm an expert, having lived and worked abroad (although not in LA Laughing ) since 1998.

The US does not tax foreign income up to an equivalent of somewhere between 80 and 90,000 USD/yearly (varies depending on the year). Because language teachers rarely ever make such sums, for some strange reason, most of us are not required to pay US taxes on our foreign income, though we do have to file yearly. Well, assuming that we care to remain entirely on the up-and-up with the IRS.

http://taxes.about.com/od/taxhelp/a/ForeignIncome.htm

Some countries limit the amount of tax paid by expats who were invited to come to the country to fulfill functions that there are not enough locals to fulfill. For example, my income tax in Western Europe was capped at 25% (considerably lower than the local norm) on this basis.

Further, if you consider VAT, which is charged by quite a few countries (list appears here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax#VAT_systems) and other sales tax schemes, most governments are indeed getting something from all expats living in a country (tourists can normally claim VAT back at the airport when they exit a country, I believe).

Anyway, it's not worth doing extensive research in advance on the topic unless
1. you are considering a country to retire in
2. you need to launder money Cool

Tax details are normally something we work out once we've found a country to target. What you mainly need to know is net income vs normal costs of living.

An Expert Hath Spoke. Listen, o plebes! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 801

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't earn enough to be taking money out of the country, what I earn here gets spent here (mostly my choice, I prefer to work part time because I value my free time more than $$$).

The tax breaks I get are not special to ex-pats, they are available to everyone. Basically food, rent, education and medicine are tax deductible. I believe that there are other ways that I could reclaim tax as I have a non-resident visa, but as my rent and food more than accounts for the tax I pay, it's easier to claim it back that way, like everyone else does.

Not all countries are on a mission to screw every last penny out of their citizens. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Latin America Forum All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC