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Teaching hours in Europe
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kapsis



Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:51 pm    Post subject: Teaching hours in Europe Reply with quote

hi all,
I've been teaching in Asia for a few years but never in Europe.
Just like to ask those teachers in Europe,what the general teaching hours are?
Is it mostly evening work or are there any daytime only hours schools.
Thanks
kapsis
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9323
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming that you are from the UK, or otherwise have a passport from an EU member country and can therefore work legally in the European Union:

There is daytime work, but private language schools often offer mostly split shift schedules. To get into this sector, you need
1. the right passport
2. a CELTA or equivalent certification

Daytime only work is fairly normal at universities, and they usually require related MA +++++ other quals, and it often takes local contacts and language skills to compete for the rare openings.

Regular state schools (elementary - high school) are normally staffed by non-native local teachers.

International schools run normal daytime hours, but openings are rare and you need teaching certificates + at least two years of experience in your home country to compete on the market for jobs in this sector.

Also, keep in mind that experience in Asia won't count for much on the European job market - the approaches and methods used here, and the students and their motivation and goals for language learning are too different. Schools here are well-aware of the differences and dont' give a lot of weight to experience from Asia on this job market.
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kapsis



Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for that Spiral78
yes im from the UK,its similar to Asia then.
the only difference is the split shifs,how does that work?
The other thing you said was working in an University,i have never seen those gigs advertised for Europe,Im currently about to embark on a MA and have worked in a uni before.

Totally agree with what you the teaching methods would be for the 2 continents really want to get a years experience in Europe or the UK.
Tell me spiral78 have you worked in both continents,what was your experience comparing both of them?Its an interesting topic!
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9323
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split shifts = starting in the morning hours, having a long break in the afternoon, and finishing up at some point in the evening. Newbies to a region normally get the 'worst' schedules - it usually gets better in subsequent years when you've built up a local reputation, contacts, and language skills.

So far as university positions, there simply aren't many around. Further, the adverts are often for form's sake, meaning someone is already lined up for the job but the legalities require it to be advertised. I have very rarely known someone without local connections to be hired at a university from an advert, though it must happen occasionally (I've taught at a European university for near 7 years, and we have partners at other European universities, so I know something about quite a few).



I've only taught in Europe and Canada, but have some experience with Chinese exchange students in Canada (and other Asian students on specific projects over the years). There's a more in-depth discussion of some of the differences in the other new thread on this forum, and I am hoping others with direct experience on both continents will join in. Come join us there!

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=92073
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kapsis



Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheers again Spiral78
im grateful 4 the info

i've been debating whether to take the MA in Tesol or the Delta.
i know the latter is more popular in Europe and the UK,i still like to take the MA while i have the chance,however it might not help if I want to work in Europe.
spiral78 do you know teachers working in Europe or the UK working in schools or is the Delta the dominant certificate?

I certainly check out the other thread and the debate about teaching on other continents!
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9323
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A DELTA is not equal to a Master's. It is sometimes accepted as points towards an MA.

I have never heard that a DELTA is preferred generally to an MA, in my 14 years around Europe. I have worked with quite a few teachers with both qualifications.
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kapsis



Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i hope so! i know in Asia amd the Middle east its regarded highly however all the jobs i see advertised on tefl.com for Europe seem to want the Delta and never mention the MA.

I know the usual route is to take the Delta before the MA , just I was thinking to take it now while I had the chance,maybe Im looking for at the wrong websites.

thx for the info again !
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9323
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do keep in mind that by far most European posts are not advertised - you may be looking at some DOS job postings, but that's not really representative of the range of jobs or requirements!
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kapsis



Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey Spiral78,
your right it just seems to be DOS jobs,
I assume you have the MA ,
Even though i think Im going to take it,i still have some doubts about it,it means a year away from work, i think the online one would be tougher for me because i need that extra push.
just hope I can learn something from it and get something at the end of it.
Hey Spiral do u think age is a problem,in Japan and Taiwan they sometimes discriminate against older guys,I dont know whats it like in the UK or Europe.
Thanks
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9323
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I have the MA. No, age discrimination isn't common in this region.

Go for it. You'll be fine Very Happy
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jonniboy



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 684
Location: Riga, Latvia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
There is daytime work, but private language schools often offer mostly split shift schedules. To get into this sector, you need
1. the right passport
2. a CELTA or equivalent certification


Sorry to disagree with you Spiral but no you don't. The simple fact is that in the more popular job markets in Europe (Spain for example) you can get a job without a CELTA. It takes a hell of a lot more searching around but you'll find enough work to put a roof over your head and food on the table. Don't get me wrong, I know from personal experience that the first year of teaching without it is a hell of a slog, but it's doable.

The passport similarly, in Western Europe (i.e. the 15 EU member states of the EU pre-2004) you will not find legal work without an EU passport but there is a tonne of under the table work in places like Spain and Italy. It really is up to people if they want to take that risk for nine months. In the new EU, the countries which joined 2004 or later, well I can speak for the Baltic states, an American passport holder can easily find legal work there teaching English without CELTA. I know a lot of people in Latvia who did it.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8928
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Spiral was referring to legal work in western Europe in the main. In a similar vein, I can get any number of illegal jobs in the US without any papers whatsoever (maybe even an EFL one) but would not go about recommending this as a valid course of action to others. I'd actively discourage friends and posters from even trying.
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jonniboy



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 684
Location: Riga, Latvia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sasha don't get me wrong I'm not recommending it as a course of action, looking over my shoulder all the time wouldn't be for me, just saying that it is possible.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 8928
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh no, I didn't think you were. But there have been other comments on Dave's where the line between 'possible' and 'legal' is so blurred that I'd worry for newcomers. In fact, this is basically the way various agencies seem to be able to promise jobs in Europe to unsuspecting young Americans, many of whom are genuinely surprised to later learn that they can't just waltz in and start working like it said in the ESL brochure.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9323
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sorry to disagree with you Spiral but no you don't. The simple fact is that in the more popular job markets in Europe (Spain for example) you can get a job without a CELTA. It takes a hell of a lot more searching around but you'll find enough work to put a roof over your head and food on the table. Don't get me wrong, I know from personal experience that the first year of teaching without it is a hell of a slog, but it's doable.

The passport similarly, in Western Europe (i.e. the 15 EU member states of the EU pre-2004) you will not find legal work without an EU passport but there is a tonne of under the table work in places like Spain and Italy. It really is up to people if they want to take that risk for nine months. In the new EU, the countries which joined 2004 or later, well I can speak for the Baltic states, an American passport holder can easily find legal work there teaching English without CELTA. I know a lot of people in Latvia who did it.



Yes, I'd agree that it's possible in some job markets to get a job without a CELTA or other qualification. I know of people in less-desirable locations who have done this, and also people who were married or living with locals who got a hand up. But my advice here is necessarily geared toward the general audience, and even you seem to agree that it's going to be a great help in most job markets to have the certification. Why would we want to advise people who want to make the time and energy investment to move abroad to do so in a way that puts them on the short end of the stick automatically? If they choose to do so knowing what they are facing, fair enough. But as you point out, it's not easy to get work without the cert, and people should know that up front.

On the working illegally issue, sure, so long as people understand the risks, it's obviously their lookout - we are all (presumably) adults here. What I consistently object to is those occasional posters and the websites that, as Sasha points out, make the risks sound very minor or even nil.

Yes, I know and agree that non-EU member citizens can get legal work in Central/Eastern Europe. I point that out quite often....
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