Job Discussion Forums

[Sweetbanana]

There is a new school in Da Nang called UCSI. During recruitment they talk a good game, but beware before deciding to work for them. They called us two days before we departed from the U.S. saying that they might not have enough students and if we could come a month later..by then we had no possessions except our 2 pcked suitcases. We went to Da Nang and worked with them for 2 weeks before they "let us go", leaving us here with no jobs and not knowing anyone. They put forth little effort to help us find alternative jobs or to make sure we were getting along ok, even though we had signed a 2 year contract with them. We have been on our own with finding work, housing...everything, since we have been here. The management is very impersonal and they make you feel that they couldn't care less that you moved here and they broke your contract. Beware if you are ever considering this school!

[CThomas]

What does your contract say? That work contract is a legally binding document. If it stipulates pay, number of hours, etc., then they owe you that much. At the least, they may owe you a month of salary. If it is worded in a way that says "subject to availability of hours/students" then you're out of luck. If it is worded in your favor, talk to a lawyer and/or contact the labor department.

Breech of contract is taken seriously here (though it is often dismissed by Western teachers as "so it goes in Vietnam."

[generalgiap]

It's interesting to find out that laws including breech of contract are taken seriously in Vietnam. In fact, the law in Vietnam is based on money under the table and negotiation. If your contract states that you were guaranteed a salary based on a certain number of hours, then you can start the negotiation process. Please be advised that this will be a long process and in the end you will probably receive nothing. UCSI is a small cowboy outfit that would be more than happy to pay a small token of tea money to the right person. However, let's say that you want to start the process. First, you will have to contact a lawyer, hope you enjoy the experience of paying a "large amout of money" to a lawyer who will probably tell you that it's a waste of time. But the lawyer may be happy to take you for a ride, a time consuming one and will cost you more money. Also, don't hesitate to contact the labour dept. or the police etc, do you speak Vietnamese, this will also be time consuming and will get you nowhere. But continue the process and you will become not the victim but the criminal. Do you have a work permit, what about your visa situation, where are you living, does your landlord have connections with the local police? Where are you working now? What if the police etc decide to visit those schools to talk to the owner? Do you think they will continue to employ you? I could go on and on since I personally have experience dealing with these issues and have been in Vietnam for over 20 years.

However, if you have a contract with a multinational company such as BP, Unilever, Intel etc then you may be able to do something about it. But this would never happen if that's the case.

Walk away immediately or you won't find any work in Danang in the future.

[CThomas]

I'll add that you can find a reasonably-priced lawyer and probably pursue this. Spend a few hundred to prosecute for a couple of thousand, give or take, if your contract's verbiage warrants it.

[snollygoster]

Legally you are probably in the right to pursue this matter.
For my money, I'd follow the generals advice and dismiss it as a lesson learned.
From people who have been here a long time, the right advice is valuable.
The power of connections is what drives business, and the law is broken regularly in favour of connections.
Suggestion? Forget it- =It was a bad rap-its over-move on.

[CThomas]

[deadlift]

[generalgiap]

see below

[generalgiap]

Well, it's interesting that you call my comments inflammatory.

Well, most people who have either real experience, like myself or understand Vietnam for what it is-incompetence and corruption, according to the World Bank and the ADB and many other international financial institutions. In addition, have you read the criminal laws in Vietnam,well I have, nothing but a farce and should be immediately re-written to protect the victims. Do you know anyone who has been the victim of a physical attack in Vietnam? Have you ever been attacked in Vietnam? The facts, unless you are a person with power and money, nothing will happen to the criminal if they are someone who has money and bribes the police. Also, how do the police determine if it's serious enough to charge the criminal with assault and battery. They send you to the police hospital in HCMC to determine this, another system to pay off the doctor etc. Hundreds of foreigners in Vietnam are attacked by Vietnamese but rarely does anything happen to these criminals. And yes, I have been a victim and know others who also have but nothing has been done even though they know who did it and the police go through the song and dance like they care but it's a scam.

What about robbery, I have had a few motorbikes stolen from different houses that I have lived in, computers, a safe with a lot of money and other office equipment stolen, from my own company that I had a few years ago. The first question from the police is always, what's in it for me, I need some money, no money and nothing will happen. In fact, regarding the office equipment, I did my own investigation and found out who stole it. I told the police all the details and nothing happened even after I went to the criminals office and saw my computers, safe and many other things which had my company's name on them. The criminal laughed at me and said you cant do anything.

In addition, went to my consulate in HCMC and made official complaints and they could do nothing. Also, went to lawyers and they advised to walk away because it would be a waste of time and money and stated that this is the ususal in Vietnam.

How about teachers who sign employment contracts with EFL schools and the school does not abide by the contract. I have known many teachers and I am sure there are others on this board who also know others and may have been victims themselves but nothing ever happens in the end.
Again, lots of talking, song and dance but in the end nothing. In fact, I have a few friends who were not paid by the school and hired a lawyer and found out that the school paid off the lawyer to convince them it was a waste of time.

Let;s continue, have you ever rented a house in Vietnam and put down a deposit? Does one usually get the deposit back even with a contract, the answer is no. This has happened to me numerous times and to all of my friends. What you have to do is to go and complain to the local police the district police don't deal with these issues. Does the landlord know the local police, of course, the landlord has to pay the local police money under the table to get permission for them to rent the house apt etc. I have also been burned on deposits for office rental, same thing.

Have you ever run a business in Vietnam? I won't even go there, there is so much corruption every corner one turns. MPI, tax dept., local police, etc etc.

Finally, ask the Vietnamese about these issues because the same thing happens to them. And they will tell you the same thing.

I could write books about this based on personal experience of over 20 years in Vietnam.

The average foreigner in Vietnam has no idea about the corruption and dishonesty of the Vietnamese people. This is part of the culture. In fact, they recently conducted a survey of high school students and a large percentage stated that they saw nothing wrong with corruption. Why do Vietnamese people try to join the party, only 1.8% of the population, ask them, I have, they will tell you to make money and for personal gain.

Why don't you tell us about all of your great experiences with the police, authorities in Vietnam.

[snollygoster]

Using a lawyer in Vietnam to prosecute your case is a "no go" area-believe me.
You will end up being the victim.
Viet lawyers are fine for conveyencing, setting up companies etc, but court-room, crime and tort? Forget it-they are pussies, and the connections will soon see them back off your case.
I suggest you follow the general's advice- I have been there and agree with him 105%. Yes, you are right, but that's little consolation when thousands of dollars later, you are no further advanced in your case, and the myriad of connections that go with such things has made you a social outcast, possibly without any chance of a visa renewal, and much more.
Might and money are right, and most of us don't have enough of either to win.
Leave it alone.

[generalgiap]

CThomas, not to be disrespectful but I think I deserve a reply from you and I hope its based on facts not like a previous statement on another thread about the original work permits being stored in a drawer at the labour dept.

Have a nice evening.

[tefl peasant]

[LettersAthruZ]

[haller_79]

[generalgiap]