Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

What do ex-ESOL teachers do?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> United Kingdom
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 736
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slapntickle,

Well, whichever planet you are on, you seem unaware that the pathway into a rolling UK university EAP contract (not EFL )is to work on a 12 week pre-sessional course. The two folk who applied and were accepted had recently returned from abroad (Italy and Spain). Now they have full time contracts.

The future is in EAP - the numbers of overseas students applying for university admission are rocketing. Forget EFL. Specialize.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dedicated wrote:
slapntickle,

Well, whichever planet you are on, you seem unaware that the pathway into a rolling UK university EAP contract (not EFL )is to work on a 12 week pre-sessional course. The two folk who applied and were accepted had recently returned from abroad (Italy and Spain). Now they have full time contracts.


I've just finished teaching a summer presessional and the pathway at that particular school led nowhere! And talking of pathways, you are starting to sound like one of those private companies like INTO or Study Group that feed students with inferior English-language skills into one its partner universities. If the two teachers were given full-time contracts with such a company, then the hours will be long and the pay pitiful. Once they realise this, they'll probably do a runner and move overseas to greener pastures.

Quote:
The future is in EAP - the numbers of overseas students applying for university admission are rocketing. Forget EFL. Specialize.


Quite right, but you'd better make hay while the sun shines because as soon as the new visa regulations kick in for international students, that rocket you speak of will resemble the Space Shuttle Challenger . . . and we all know what happened to that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 736
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tier 4 student visa regulations were introduced in April 2011. Most of the restrictions are targeted at students in private colleges or language schools rather than universities. This is to wipe out bogus colleges.

Students must meet new English Language requirements which are equivalent to B1 Secure English Language Test, approx IELTS 5.5. This has eliminated beginners or low-intermediate level students from coming, as they must be "competent" in speaking English.

Hence my comment earlier about forgetting EFL and specialising in EAP. If you read my post of 5th November carefully, I'm not at an INTO-related university. Applications for this summer's pre-sessionals were the highest ever, and we had to turn people away. Already, applications for summer 2012 are pouring in, as folk from booming economies such as China, Brazil, Turkey, Kazakhstan can afford the astronomical fees.

All high-ranking Top 10 UK universities are reporting the same trend. The visa regulations have made no difference whatsoever to genuine university students. It's the language schools which are suffering.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dedicated wrote:
Tier 4 student visa regulations were introduced in April 2011. Most of the restrictions are targeted at students in private colleges or language schools rather than universities. This is to wipe out bogus colleges.


This is probably a good thing, but it still means that more teflers will be laid off and the ranks of the unemployed will swell.

Quote:
Students must meet new English Language requirements which are equivalent to B1 Secure English Language Test, approx IELTS 5.5. This has eliminated beginners or low-intermediate level students from coming, as they must be "competent" in speaking English.


Fewer international students who don't meet the new English Language requirement mean fewer jobs.

Quote:
Hence my comment earlier about forgetting EFL and specialising in EAP. If you read my post of 5th November carefully, I'm not at an INTO-related university. Applications for this summer's pre-sessionals were the highest ever, and we had to turn people away. Already, applications for summer 2012 are pouring in, as folk from booming economies such as China, Brazil, Turkey, Kazakhstan can afford the astronomical fees.


"Applications . . . were the highest ever." Again, that's my point: It's tough out there.

Quote:
All high-ranking Top 10 UK universities are reporting the same trend. The visa regulations have made no difference whatsoever to genuine university students. It's the language schools which are suffering.


Yes, I realise this, but teflers who have jobs within these prestigious institutions would be holding onto them for dear life. So, even the OP with his DELTA and PGCE would not have a chance. You seem to be contradicting yourself and providing evidence for my point that there are no jobs out there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Perilla



Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 783
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slapntickle wrote:
Yes, I realise this, but teflers who have jobs within these prestigious institutions would be holding onto them for dear life. So, even the OP with his DELTA and PGCE would not have a chance.


Quite. As multiple posters to the forum have pointed out, those jobs in the UK TEFL sector worth a second look are either already occupied or fiercely contested. And despite the influx of overseas students good positions are dwindling as pack-em-in cartels extend their grubby paws into formerly respected institutions. The UK is overpopulated with good TEFLers fighting for life in a deregulated, badly paid, cut-throat sector that changes like a chameleon and generally prefers inexperienced youngsters who do what they're told. Unless you're a lottery winner the message is clear - get out or stay out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perilla wrote:
Quite. As multiple posters to the forum have pointed out, those jobs in the UK TEFL sector worth a second look are either already occupied or fiercely contested. And despite the influx of overseas students good positions are dwindling as pack-em-in cartels extend their grubby paws into formerly respected institutions. The UK is overpopulated with good TEFLers fighting for life in a deregulated, badly paid, cut-throat sector that changes like a chameleon and generally prefers inexperienced youngsters who do what they're told. Unless you're a lottery winner the message is clear - get out or stay out.


Incidentally, if these "pack-em-in cartels" hadn't bullied there way into our prestigious universities and taken over their language centres, forcing teachers to accept inferior contracts, there'd be more money around for qualified teflers and less for the corporate cowboys at the top. It is these for-profits crooks that are destroying the good jobs, along with the universities that they attach themselves too, much like a parasite attaches itself to a host and sucks it dry of all its life force.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 736
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I said [/quote]applications were the highest ever[quote]

I meant the number of students! That means there is a greater need for EAP teachers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dedicated wrote:
When I said applications were the highest ever . . . I meant the number of students! That means there is a greater need for EAP teachers.


So, a massive number of student applications translated into two full-time positions. Wow! Thanks for helping to reduce the massive numbers of unemployed.

Maybe if these massive numbers of students were to get remedial help throughout the year on insessional courses, they'd be more jobs available? But for companies like Study Group and INTO and that whole new for-profit model, additional classes are out-of-the-question because they cost. No, why not just rely on the goodwill of the petrified teacher to pass these dimwits and then the teacher keeps his job, the students get their degree, and the powers that be are placated. No wonder our universities are losing their edge in the international market place.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Perilla



Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 783
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dedicated wrote:
When I said applications were the highest ever
I meant the number of students! That means there is a greater need for EAP teachers.


Dedicated, Cloud Cuckoo Land is a good place to be, so long as you don't spend too long there. Start watching what's going on around you and listening to what other people are saying. This will help when it's your turn to join the queue or look at new destinations.

You could start by checking out this thread:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=48797&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 736
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perilla,

Thanks for the link, to which I had actually posted a comment.
This just substantiates what I have been saying : if you have a BA and a CELTA, you will receive the pay as "unskilled labour". As long as people accept these dreadful hourly wages in EFL, unscrupulous employers will continue to pay them.
Get out of EFL, get more qualifications and specialize in EAP.
I'm not looking for other destinations as I have lived and worked at universities in 10 countries and completed an MA, MSc and a PhD bringing up two children single-handed. It can be done.

However, I'm not arguing any more with such defeatist ideas. You are convincing yourselves it cannot be done. It can.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Perilla



Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 783
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dedicated wrote:
I'm not looking for other destinations as I have lived and worked at universities in 10 countries and completed an MA, MSc and a PhD bringing up two children single-handed. It can be done. However, I'm not arguing any more with such defeatist ideas. You are convincing yourselves it cannot be done. It can.


OK, I'm beginning to understand why you call yourself Dedicated! FWIW, I have a BA and two master's degrees, one of which is an MEd specialising in TESOL, but you trump me with your PhD!

But Dedicated, you are missing the point - or at least you are missing the point that I'm trying to make. I am not saying "it" cannot be done (I presume by "it" you mean find a decent job in TEFL in the UK). What I and most other posters here are saying is that "it" is very difficult to find and becoming progressively more difficult - unless perhaps you are extraordinarily dedicated (sorry!).

This process of increasing difficulty will continue - it is guaranteed to continue - for the usual reasons (greed, lack of regulation, etc). This is not defeatism, this is reality. EAP will also be subsumed, sooner or later, by the Mc Language cartels. Fortunately there are still reasonable numbers of reasonable jobs to be found abroad, if you look hard enough, despite the fact that TEFL's golden years are over.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dedicated wrote:
This just substantiates what I have been saying: if you have a BA and a CELTA, you will receive the pay as "unskilled labour". As long as people accept these dreadful hourly wages in EFL, unscrupulous employers will continue to pay them.


But a BA and CELTA are - or used to be - respectable qualifications. Nowadays however with saturated markets and an unregulated TEFL sector anything goes, including the Mickey Mousation of our beloved universities by corporate crooks like INTO and Study Group. Incidentally, did you know that the former CEO of Study Group, Andrew Colin, is now the CEO of INTO. What a coincidence, eh?

Quote:
Get out of EFL, get more qualifications and specialize in EAP.


Just like our OP, who holds a DELTA and PGCE, but can't find anything. Was the investment really worth it?

Quote:
I'm not looking for other destinations as I have lived and worked at universities in 10 countries and completed an MA, MSc and a PhD bringing up two children single-handed. It can be done.


When you say "It can be done" you sound like it took a miracle to do it. I hold both an MA and a DELTA, but I wouldn't even dream of trying to raise two kids on a periodic TEFL income in the UK. God, I'd be a Kamikaze to even think of it! Christ, I wouldn't even think of taking out a loan to buy a car and heck if I had a girlfriend, which I don't, I'd insist that we go Dutch at McDonald's!!

Quote:
However, I'm not arguing any more with such defeatist ideas. You are convincing yourselves it cannot be done. It can.


Perilla isn't defeatist, he's simply a realist who doesn't look at TEFL life through rose-tinted specs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:21 am    Post subject: A job's not just for Xmas....except if u say summer......... Reply with quote

I have worked in TEFL for 16 years. I started in the old language school rigmarole, then graduated to being a university 'lektor' and ended up teaching Arabs in the oil sector......still here.

I'm much less qualified than some of you who post on here yet I regularly get jobs that pay around the $60-70K mark. I'll be back in Libya soon doing 6 weeks on 3 weeks off all on full pay, with free BUPA and 6 flights and all that mumbojumbo. I've also been published. There is money in a tiny fraction of TEFL jobs it's just that there are zillions of TEFL teachers and you need a lot of luck. As a career it's a high-risk strategy ( I was a banker before).

I blow all my cash having a laugh, so I guess my pension plan will involve a return to the UK and H.M. Prison Ford.....very nice and by the sea too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Perilla



Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 783
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: A job's not just for Xmas....except if u say summer..... Reply with quote

sharter wrote:
I have worked in TEFL for 16 years. I started in the old language school rigmarole, then graduated to being a university 'lektor' and ended up teaching Arabs in the oil sector......still here.

I'm much less qualified than some of you who post on here yet I regularly get jobs that pay around the $60-70K mark. I'll be back in Libya soon doing 6 weeks on 3 weeks off all on full pay, with free BUPA and 6 flights and all that mumbojumbo. I've also been published. There is money in a tiny fraction of TEFL jobs it's just that there are zillions of TEFL teachers and you need a lot of luck. As a career it's a high-risk strategy ( I was a banker before).

I blow all my cash having a laugh, so I guess my pension plan will involve a return to the UK and H.M. Prison Ford.....very nice and by the sea too.


Sounds like you've cornered a decent niche, but the point we were making above is that decent TEFL jobs are very hard to come by in the UK - and probably nothing that pays the sort of money you're on. See you at Ford sometime.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:35 am    Post subject: erm..... Reply with quote

From time to time there are M.O.D. ELT jobs in the UK...need CRB clearance though, which is hard if you've been overseas for years like most Teflon Dons.

University jobs are getting scarcer and scarcer.

Language schools are laughable unless you just happened to have opened one in the late 70's.

All these new visa regulations and IELTS stuff must be nailing them.

I think you should start a school for Afghan, Kurdish and Ukrainian students then write the invitation letters, help them with the visas etc. Charge them $10,000 for a 2 week course and, hey presto, you're rich! Then just close the school before you get busted for people smuggling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> United Kingdom All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC