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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 542

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

sharter wrote:
You will insist on arguing.

Have it your way. You can earn tonnes of money in Poland, it's really cheap and I obviously talk tosh. A 3-bedroom, 30 year-old terraced house on the south coast doesn't cost 160k in my city and a similar house in Poz doesn't cost the same in Osiedle Zodiak, on the outskirts of Poz near M1.


So you're comparing a random (and not very well off if you can get a 3 bedroomed house there for 160k) south coast town with a major city right on the Berlin-Warsaw transit route. The same place in Zodiak is what, 5-10 minutes walk maximum to a major tram line with a 9 minute connection to the city centre, again, unlike in your example.

Can you buy a brand new house in the suburbs of the UK for less than 60k? I don't think so. In Poznan? Easily.

Quote:
C'mon man I have a Pole sorting my stuff out and she's a great friend. Public transport is way cheaper yes and fast food, but a crap hotel in the Uk costs what a crap hotel in Poland costs. The Hotel Merkure went from 40 quid a night to 180 Euros a night in a couple of years, so I don't go there anymore obviously.


"branded" hotel accomodation has reached European levels, that's true. But it sounds like your Pole is ripping you off if she can't find you decent accommodation for a reasonable price - I could probably offer you a fully-serviced single room (cleaned daily, with concierge services) for 4k in Poznan for a month, along with a decent (hot) all-you-can-eat breakfast with a decent range of things to eat, not just some old toast and butter. And even that is on the high side!

Quote:
There is very little that's exclusive when it comes to quality in every day Poland aside from vodka. Those new build flats are a joke. The old kamienice type ones need rewiring, replumbing and a whole host of other upgrades, so they ain't cheap. Yes' whishy is expensive, but so is wine (ridiculously so) and imported beer.


Plenty of decent older flats in good shape, I know someone selling some just now for under 9k a square metre, 1 minute away from Stary Browar - totally renovated and ready to move in.

Wine is taxed to hell to protect the vodka industry, and as for imported beer - I don't call 4zl "expensive" for an imported beer, like Obolon. If the pubs are charging more, don't go there - it's that simple.

Quote:
You must go out of your way to find the cheapest places in town....I just work by averages. The noclegi off Ogrodiska is 65 a night but it's crap....I've stayed there. No hot water and a freezing room. Before you quote these low end prices go and look at them mate.


65 a night is too low, but you can easily get something for 100 a night if you're staying medium-term. And that's something livable and normal, not a dump.

Quote:
You must be one of those people who regularly drinks in Dragon, where the toilets are a health hazard, the staff miserable sods and the 12Zl cider is flat. I remember it when it was an African restaurant which tried to palm off soup inside a loaf of bread as an African dish.


I've been to Dragon once in 2 years, I can't stand the place.

Quote:
Actually, for the budget minded, the Vikings is a good, small, clean pub and Tylko Onas does good cheap lunches. There's a place to stay called Florka on Garbary too.......it's a crap building but the rooms are en suite and newly renovated. Hania will cut a deal there...but she's as mad as a box of frogs.


The Vikings is a great bar, but there's plenty of other good ones at the same prices. U Hoznika is a fine place, Cooliozum (if you avoid the days with football matches) is a decent place, the list is endless. What sucks in Poznan is the clubs, not the pubs.

I even found a nice little Korean pub the other day in the centre, with a cheery Korean owner. Decent range of beers, absolutely no Tyskie/Warka/etc in sight - can't complain.

As for food, the Pyra Bar is always decent when I'm there. Reasonably priced, too.

Quote:
What's an average Polish salary? Spill the beans....I keep asking.


In Poznan, officially? Well over 4000zl. Unofficially? Even higher - plenty of people only earning 1500zl on paper or who are retired/sick are earning quite a bit on the side. And whe we talk about Warsaw, it's headed for over 6000zl on average now.

Either way, not such a poor place, especially when you consider that this generation is starting to inherit property to be sold and re-invested. As I say - the official numbers mean nothing in a country where tax evasion is still rife.

[quote=dynow]that's a nice argument with a communist flare. you rationalize a country taking a huge cut out of her citizens' paychecks every month by saying, "well, you guys would piss it away anyhow". are you so sure the Polish government knows how to spend your hard earned money better than you do? [/quote]

In Poland? Certainly, the Government does know better. I wouldn't say so in Germany, the UK, etc - but in Poland, the people still need their hand held because otherwise, there'll be nothing left when they retire.
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: ha Reply with quote

I haven't seen 1 house for 60k/300,000Zl on oferty.net and I've been on it 3 times this week. 60K for a 1-bedroom flat in Batorego maybe.....that's all they cost on housing estates in parts of Manchester, Glasgow and Liverpool.

And how long's the Pyra Bar been open? All of a few months.

Hania in the Vikings sorts me out.......we were together for a while.

Most Poles would love to earn 4K (800 quid) a month.

Last time I had a single in a hostel it was 130 a night. And I'll tell you this.......there's the targi price and the normal price.....when any foreigner pitches up they'll try and charge the targi price as a hotel receptionist once explained to me that part of her monthly salary was a commission. That's why your room rate can vary on a nightly basis depending on who's juggling figures for their commission.

You obviously don't have a kid either.

Let's say you have a small mortgage of 1,200Zl, czincz of 200, phone 100, school 250, petrol 250, food 500, gas 150, odds and sods 500 ie clothes, dentist, medicine, gym....that leaves you 180 quid for a month, which is the princely sum of 6 quid a day, which is 1 JD or cigs and a beer or 2 small kebabs or 3 pints. 6 quid a day ain't much in Africa (I've lived there) yet alone Europe. Try dating with 6 nicker in your bin.

You must have a bossy, nationalistic Polish chick standing over you telling you what to write.

And at least be honest....how many teachers reading this take home the 48,000Zl you say is average?
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1034

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delphian-domine wrote:

Quote:
Can you buy a brand new house in the suburbs of the UK for less than 60k? I don't think so. In Poznan? Easily.


I can't speak for Poznan but in Wroclaw, houses were absolutely positively for the well off. A friend of mine lived in Bielany, about 7-8 miles from the rynek in a newly built, shared condo-type setup with shared property. 88 sq meters, it was assessed at around 600,000zl. My apartment which was a 20 minute walk from the city center, 50sq meters, 1 bedroom in a renovated kamienice sold for 355,000zl just one year ago.

I'd love to see these houses you speak of. do they have running water?

sharter wrote:

Quote:
gas 150


150 a month? gas is what....5zl a liter right now? 150 if you can go an entire month on a single tank, i guess.

also, you mentioning gas suggests a vehicle, so I assume you were doing your calculations based on someone who owned the car outright and didn't have any monthly car payments. can't forget car insurance either, bud.
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maniak



Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This conversation is pretty much the same old, but sharter again delivers the point home: when you factor in the cost of LIFE that's when things become very expensive in Poland.

A fresh-faced native's expenses are minuscule: rent, food and eating out, odds and end, travel... that's it. They came with a suitcase filled with clothes, electronics, laptops, they don't really need to buy anything.

A car? Sure, then its insurance, gasoline, repairs, winter/summer tires, god forbid anything major breaks, tolls, paid parking and good luck not getting ripped off by any and every mechanic.

Or a hobby? I think most teachers in Poland spend their time doing the drinking/internet thing... but try skiing in Poland or in the Czech Republic, that'll show you how expensive things get.

And the talk of home ownership here is insane, do any of you have any idea how much its cost to maintain a home? In the winter I spend 700-1200zl a month just on heating.
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gwiazda



Joined: 07 May 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

sharter wrote:
You can earn tonnes of money in Poland, it's really cheap and I obviously talk tosh.


Very Happy

sharter wrote:

And at least be honest....how many teachers reading this take home the 48,000Zl you say is average?


Not the newbies but anyone who's been here a while?


delphian-domine wrote:
in Poland, the people still need their hand held because otherwise, there'll be nothing left when they retire.


So all Poles are incapable of organising their finances? Thats a rather sweeping and inaccurate generalisation.
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scottie1113



Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 351
Location: Gdansk

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

[quote="gwiazda"]
sharter wrote:
You can earn tonnes of money in Poland, it's really cheap and I obviously talk tosh.


Very Happy

sharter wrote:

And at least be honest....how many teachers reading this take home the 48,000Zl you say is average?


Not the newbies but anyone who's been here a while?

Are you asking about school salaries, or school salaries plus private lessons?
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:44 am    Post subject: Work Reply with quote

I tried to move back to Poz in 2005/2006. I taught 38 hours a week at Profilingua....I only wanted 20 but got observed and had my hours bumped right up. Let's just say the double MA qualified teacher trainer there was a bit impressed. I made 65 Zl/hour gross. The semester didn't start till mid October, there were 2 weeks off at Xmas and 2 for winter break, so no full month in October, December and January....nice. I then got headhunted to teach 1 Polish entrepreneur full-time on 7.5K net with a free luxury flat in Warsaw, all my expenses and a chauffeur. Worked myself to death for 1,500 quid a month. Relying on privates is no security. I left. Looking after a child and paying child support made it impossible. Last year my son had 3 school holidays....each one was more than 1,200Zl. Lego is 300Zl a box average. This Christmas it's a new snowboard, followed by a winter break snowboarding trip and all the gear that goes with it. And that's the tip of the ice-berg.

Single, no kids and Poland is doable long-term. Find a working partner...yep doable. Bringing up a family on one wage....extremely hard.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 542

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The semester didn't start till mid October, there were 2 weeks off at Xmas and 2 for winter break, so no full month in October, December and January....nice.


And it's different elsewhere? Don't talk about places like the ME - we're talking Europe.

(I get paid 12 months a year, however)

Quote:
Looking after a child and paying child support made it impossible.


This is what it's really all about, isn't it? It's nothing to do with the country, but rather your own personal situation. For what it's worth, this is nothing new anywhere - I know someone in the UK that has to work Saturdays on top of his normal Monday-Friday work just to pay his child support.

Quote:
Last year my son had 3 school holidays....each one was more than 1,200Zl.


I'd love to know what public school in Poznan is sending children on three holidays a year for more than 1,200zl a time. Certainly not normal behaviour in Polish schools.

Quote:
Lego is 300Zl a box average. This Christmas it's a new snowboard, followed by a winter break snowboarding trip and all the gear that goes with it. And that's the tip of the ice-berg.


Doesn't the mother pay for well...anything?

Quote:
Single, no kids and Poland is doable long-term. Find a working partner...yep doable. Bringing up a family on one wage....extremely hard.


But that's the same in most countries. Why are you making Poland out to be some sort of horrible place when in reality, most families have to either have both parents working or live a frugal existence?

[quote=gwiazda]Not the newbies but anyone who's been here a while? [/quote]

I'd be inclined to say that if you can't take 50,000zl home a year after living in Poland for a while in a major city, there's something very wrong with you. It's only (really) 1000 lessons - or 100 hours a month for 10 months. 25 hours a week - nothing. And realistically, 50zl is on the low side - I was taking 60zl an hour last year in Poznan without much effort, and had some clients that were paying 80zl an hour.

Quote:
So all Poles are incapable of organising their finances? Thats a rather sweeping and inaccurate generalisation.


Rather that Poles will scream blue murder if someone is left homeless at the age of 70 because they didn't save for their retirement. And Brits. And Swedes. And so on.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but I can't imagine many people would be happy when they see Babcia freeze to death because she spent all her money from self employment rather than saving it for the future.

Quote:
A car? Sure, then its insurance, gasoline, repairs, winter/summer tires, god forbid anything major breaks, tolls, paid parking and good luck not getting ripped off by any and every mechanic.


Insurance is ridiculously cheap in Poland by European standards, petrol isn't much if you buy a car with a decent engine, repairs can be insanely cheap if it's purely labour, there aren't much tolls, paid parking isn't very expensive (you can get a space in the very centre of Poznan for 400zl a month in a guarded car park) and as for mechanic - knowing a thing or two about cars tends to avoid this happening.

Quote:
Or a hobby? I think most teachers in Poland spend their time doing the drinking/internet thing... but try skiing in Poland or in the Czech Republic, that'll show you how expensive things get.


My hobby is travelling, and I don't find it expensive. Skiing? Aren't there resorts in Poland/Czech Republic where a lift pass is about 100zl for a day at the most?

Quote:
And the talk of home ownership here is insane, do any of you have any idea how much its cost to maintain a home? In the winter I spend 700-1200zl a month just on heating.


At that price, you must have really skipped out on the insulation/etc.

[quote=dynow]. A friend of mine lived in Bielany, about 7-8 miles from the rynek in a newly built, shared condo-type setup with shared property. 88 sq meters, it was assessed at around 600,000zl. [/quote]

Well, it is Bielany, one of the more desirable parts of Wroclaw. No surprise that it went for so much, given that it's one of the few parts of the city that isn't a run-down socialist dump.

Quote:
I'd love to see these houses you speak of. do they have running water?


Sure, they're just in the edge of the city. Huge posters all over Poznan advertising them, 299,900zl to go. They're not the biggest, and they're terraced houses, but still - again - how many people in Western Europe really live in much better conditions?

(America is a different story)

[quote=sharter[/quote]I haven't seen 1 house for 60k/300,000Zl on oferty.net and I've been on it 3 times this week. 60K for a 1-bedroom flat in Batorego maybe.....that's all they cost on housing estates in parts of Manchester, Glasgow and Liverpool. [/quote]

60k would buy you a 2 bedroomed flat in Batorego of around 60-70sqm, and again, you're not comparing apples with apples. How can you compare Batorego, with the fast tram link to the centre and generally a nice place with a council estate in Liverpool?

Quote:
And how long's the Pyra Bar been open? All of a few months.


Over a year now and counting. Doing quite well as well, I know the owner, and it's not going anywhere so he says.

Quote:
Most Poles would love to earn 4K (800 quid) a month.


I know plenty earning that kind of money. Perhaps you're mixing with the wrong ones?

[quote=sharter]Last time I had a single in a hostel it was 130 a night. And I'll tell you this.......there's the targi price and the normal price.....when any foreigner pitches up they'll try and charge the targi price as a hotel receptionist once explained to me that part of her monthly salary was a commission. That's why your room rate can vary on a nightly basis depending on who's juggling figures for their commission. [/quote]

That's why we steer clear of the Hotel Polonez and Hotel Olimpia.

For what it's worth, most hotels these days will have different rates according to how you book. Pitch up out of the blue, and of course you'll get hammered - book online, and you'll pay far less. I know one hotel in Wroclaw where the difference is about 200zl a night if you aren't savvy enough to book online.

Quote:
Let's say you have a small mortgage of 1,200Zl, czincz of 200, phone 100, school 250, petrol 250, food 500, gas 150, odds and sods 500 ie clothes, dentist, medicine, gym....that leaves you 180 quid for a month, which is the princely sum of 6 quid a day, which is 1 JD or cigs and a beer or 2 small kebabs or 3 pints. 6 quid a day ain't much in Africa (I've lived there) yet alone Europe. Try dating with 6 nicker in your bin.


And yet most people who have been here for more than a couple of years earn much more than that without trying too hard. For anyone with half a brain, it shouldn't be difficult to take home at least 5000zl a month in a big city. Of course, it means giving up the massive hangovers that stop you working mornings AND only dating women that actually work too, instead of expecting to be kept - but that's life.

Anyway, if you want to be rich in Poland, speak Polish and do something that they want to pay for. Bumming around in entry-level jobs just doesn't pay that well, and Poland is hardly unique.

Strange though : people always blame Poland, but when you get into it, they've always got personal problems that cause the situation.
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reading 101 Reply with quote

I made 7.5k net in my last job there with a free luxury flat next to Zamek in Warsaw, all expenses and a chauffeur. Read dear boy.

I quoted 130 a night at a Hostel (Kameleon). Read dear boy.

Last time I stayed at the Polonez it was booked online by a director of WBK using his company discount and it was 550Zl per night during a targi. I've know the director for 15 years. I'm no mug and am very well connected in Poznan-just read my posts.

I love teaching in Poland and I've made that clear...if you can read......it's just too expensive relative to the wages.

I lived in Batorego, it's a hole whose main feature is a 24 -hour Tesco. Don't tell me that Chrobrego and Batorego look any different to a UK council estate cos they're identical. And 2 rooms equals 1-bedroom mate. My ex-girlfriend's flat (in Batorego) was 48m2 and 320k. You could hear the upstairs neighbour peeing.

You must know Shanny, Dave, Newsham, Hollywood, Pete, Sami, Dixon, Brendan, Crawford, Steg, Dave Knott, Simon and Troy if you know the teachers in Poznan. None of them live this lifestyle you allude to and they've all been there years.

And the Pyra Bar is a soulless dive frequented by the truly skint....bereft of any atmosphere.

There are very few decent places left in Poznan.......it's all the same low quality pap.

Where I send my son and what I give him has nothing to do with you and for what it's worth my ex-wife is a finance specialist with Trio Line...you know the Danish furniture company that sells single office chairs for 13,000 Euros.

Maybe you and I do mix in different circles.

You're all starry-eyed.

Compare quality, cost of living and wages and Poland is a, well, a Polish reality.

When I taught at UAM in the 90's you could have a really good life there....not now cos it's one big money hunt.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 542

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Reading 101 Reply with quote

Quote:
I made 7.5k net in my last job there with a free luxury flat next to Zamek in Warsaw, all expenses and a chauffeur. Read dear boy.


And yet you couldn't make it work?

Quote:
Last time I stayed at the Polonez it was booked online by a director of WBK using his company discount and it was 550Zl per night during a targi. I've know the director for 15 years. I'm no mug and am very well connected in Poznan-just read my posts.


Now you're just getting silly - 550zl for the Polonez with a company discount? There's only one event in recent times that saw such prices - COP 14. And most hotels got burnt in the process, from what I remember.

Quote:
I lived in Batorego, it's a hole whose main feature is a 24 -hour Tesco. Don't tell me that Chrobrego and Batorego look any different to a UK council estate cos they're identical. And 2 rooms equals 1-bedroom mate. My ex-girlfriend's flat (in Batorego) was 48m2 and 320k. You could hear the upstairs neighbour peeing.


Remind us, when was the last time teenage kids were getting stabbed to death up there? Or cars getting set on fire, or any of the other general chav nonsense that goes on in British council estates?

As for the prices - if you really know Poznan so well, you should know that whatever's listed online can easily be knocked down 10-15% without much effort. Still, given that current prices see 2 bedroom (3 room) flats there going for 300k next to Pestka, I'm still wondering what British city has comparable transport links in safe neighbourhoods for that kind of money.

Quote:
You must know Shanny, Dave, Newsham, Hollywood, Pete, Sami, Dixon, Brendan, Crawford, Steg, Dave Knott, Simon and Troy if you know the teachers in Poznan. None of them live this lifestyle you allude to and they've all been there years.


Best not to talk about people online, really. I know them though, of course.

Quote:
And the Pyra Bar is a soulless dive frequented by the truly skint....bereft of any atmosphere.


See, for me, eating is about going with friends. You make your own atmosphere - and every time I've been there, there's been a good atmosphere. The food is decent, the beer is fine, the owner is a nice bloke, etc etc. The place isn't a dive, but it's not exactly "high class dining" - but who cares?

Quote:
Where I send my son and what I give him has nothing to do with you and for what it's worth my ex-wife is a finance specialist with Trio Line...you know the Danish furniture company that sells single office chairs for 13,000 Euros.


Aha.

Makes a lot of sense, now. Such women don't tend to come cheap, and their demands will probably exceed what an ESL teacher in Poland can hope to provide. Which is fair enough, given that it's not exactly a high powered career in most parts of the world.
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1034

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delphian-domine wrote:

Quote:
how many people in Western Europe really live in much better conditions?


oh man.......just another reminder of why i left that entire continent.

100,000 USD to buy a crap home in a dumpy town with nothing to do. i'm looking at buying a home here in the USA now, you'd $hit if you saw what 100 grand gets you where I'm currently living.

i know that sounds arrogant and all but hell.....it's sooo true.

i'd love to see where you end up in like 10 years Delphian-domine. you're still only what......26 years old? no kids, just doin' your thing. i dont' agree with everything you say but i don't disagree with all of it either.....but man, i simply can't imagine going for the long haul in Poland.

can you?
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:30 am    Post subject: nonsense Reply with quote

I'm out of this discussion. I've lived what I write. I'd just like to tell anyone who reads this not to believe the rosy world Delphian tries to paint. He has been extremely selective with his figures.

Newbie salaries are atrocious and for the 'experienced', chasing private work is what it's all about. That involves travelling all over town, stuck in traffic or waiting for trams.

I've never said you won't have a good time but you'll end up on a very tight budget. And, of all the names I quoted, how many have kids? I can tell you; two of them are dads. How many are trying desperately to do other things? Most of them. I've known some of those guys for more than 12 years.


Violence is also on the rise in Poland. Just yesterday the BBC world aired a report about Polish racism and football hooliganism. Three of those mentioned above got into fights over the summer, as did I. Theft, especially in the form of pickpocketing, is rife. Someone was beaten to death in the rynek a while back and another foreigner stabbed in the neck on Solna. Oh, and someone was shot outside the Dubliner. Where's this crime free utopia you talk about? Talk to Ed...he's a journalist and he'll tell you what's going on. Anti foreigner sentiment has grown over the past 16 years for sure and that's the consensus amongst all my mates more or less.

And don't go telling me prices have never been like that because I've paid them. I challenge anyone reading this to go on oferty.net or mamdom and look at flat prices for those less than a decade old. The old ones need tonnes of work. I challenge anyone to go on room finder and look at average prices for singles. It's funny; you don't hear any of the veterans with kids telling you life's peachy.



Delph-you sound young and blinkered. I quote hostel prices and hotel prices...ie the range. I quote random house prices. I talk largely in averages. You cherry pick the cheapest of places.

As for my ex-wife what do you know about her? Nothing. Yet, you seem willing to wax lyrical about her too. Maybe a pattern has emerged.

Good luck. Post again in a decade when you've got kids in Poland and then tell me about long-term viability. It ain't just Poland it's most of Europe and TEFL.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 542

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dynow wrote:
delphian-domine wrote:

Quote:
how many people in Western Europe really live in much better conditions?


oh man.......just another reminder of why i left that entire continent.

100,000 USD to buy a crap home in a dumpy town with nothing to do. i'm looking at buying a home here in the USA now, you'd $hit if you saw what 100 grand gets you where I'm currently living.

i know that sounds arrogant and all but hell.....it's sooo true.

i'd love to see where you end up in like 10 years Delphian-domine. you're still only what......26 years old? no kids, just doin' your thing. i dont' agree with everything you say but i don't disagree with all of it either.....but man, i simply can't imagine going for the long haul in Poland.

can you?


It's not arrogant, it's the truth.

I know what 100k USD buys you - it's incredible for me (and most Europeans). I was looking at villas in Florida a while ago, and you could pick up a really nice villa in Florida in a great place for around 150k - absolutely insane.

As for living here in the long run - who knows? I mean, every country has its drawbacks - you could move to a very happy country like Sweden, yet when you run out of vodka on a Saturday night party, you're stuffed until Monday morning. Here, you just pop to the local shop.

Quote:
Newbie salaries are atrocious and for the 'experienced', chasing private work is what it's all about. That involves travelling all over town, stuck in traffic or waiting for trams.


Newbie salaries are dreadful in most professions, what's new?

As for the private work - you can always do what I did and get your own office. I used to have my own office last year, I exchanged the rent for 3 classes a week from the owner - and it worked a treat.

Quote:
I've never said you won't have a good time but you'll end up on a very tight budget. And, of all the names I quoted, how many have kids? I can tell you; two of them are dads. How many are trying desperately to do other things? Most of them. I've known some of those guys for more than 12 years.


I'd rather not talk about them in public - it's not on. But actually - the fact that many of them have carved out their own existence here without many of them speaking Polish particularly well (or at all) tells you that the country can't be that bad.

Quote:
Violence is also on the rise in Poland. Just yesterday the BBC world aired a report about Polish racism and football hooliganism. Three of those mentioned above got into fights over the summer, as did I. Theft, especially in the form of pickpocketing, is rife. Someone was beaten to death in the rynek a while back and another foreigner stabbed in the neck on Solna. Oh, and someone was shot outside the Dubliner. Where's this crime free utopia you talk about? Talk to Ed...he's a journalist and he'll tell you what's going on. Anti foreigner sentiment has grown over the past 16 years for sure and that's the consensus amongst all my mates more or less.


So in other words, it's about normal level for a mid-sized European city. As for violence towards foreigners - you're not seriously telling me that it's somehow worse than the early 90's- when they were actively beating up Africans in the streets. I've got a book that documents some of the violence towards non-Europeans in those times - and it wasn't a pretty sight. Then you had all the violence in those times as people struggled to make an existence - a lot of that has now vanished completely.

It's all a matter of perception - of course, you're going to think it's a worse place if some of your expat friends get into fights, because they're a close-knit circle and know each other very well. But just like in the UK, it's all about knowing when to shut your mouth or switching to the local language.

I mean, if you want to talk about safety, I can introduce you to someone who will happily tell you about the violence in Frankfurt (Oder) towards non-Germans and even Wessies there. That's a far worse place than Poznan.

(As for the murder on the Rynek - more details? I didn't hear about this...)

And theft? Have you even been to Rome or Barcelona?

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And don't go telling me prices have never been like that because I've paid them. I challenge anyone reading this to go on oferty.net or mamdom and look at flat prices for those less than a decade old. The old ones need tonnes of work. I challenge anyone to go on room finder and look at average prices for singles. It's funny; you don't hear any of the veterans with kids telling you life's peachy.


Of course, you're assuming that people pay those prices. In Poland, it's normal to demand a discount when buying property. Usually, they put those prices up in the hope that some mug will pay it - but the vast majority of people will negotiate downwards.

The old flats don't need "tonnes of work" if you buy in the right place - or buy something that's already renovated. All depends on how much you know, or what friends you have that know about this sort of thing.

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Delph-you sound young and blinkered. I quote hostel prices and hotel prices...ie the range. I quote random house prices. I talk largely in averages. You cherry pick the cheapest of places.


You largely quote things based on "first glance", not the real prices. No-one in Poland will pay the prices on oferty.net - I bought a flat not so long ago, and I got around a 10% discount, and that was without serious negotiation/threats to walk away/etc.

You talk about paying 130zl for a room in a hostel, but that's quoting the website price without even asking them for a discount. You're just quoting it from the perceptive of the expat who has no idea about Poland, not from a local perspective. Likewise with 550zl for the Polonez - only an utter mug would pay that, and as I said, the only event in recent times to see such prices was COP 14. And they got burnt.

Quote:
As for my ex-wife what do you know about her? Nothing. Yet, you seem willing to wax lyrical about her too. Maybe a pattern has emerged.


Pretty obvious that she's screwed you financially, given that you couldn't make it work on 7.5k net in Warsaw with all expenses paid. All your posts on here say the same thing - you honestly don't need to tell us ten million times how you need to work in the ME to afford life.

I mean, you talk about prices, yet you claim that "3 school trips at a year at 1200zl each" is somehow normal. It's not, except in private schools.

Anyway, the final word should be this - I see those guys in the pub almost every week, and they're happy. They're laughing, joking and having a grand old time - the beers (and the whisky) are flowing, they're out to silly o'clock and they get taxis home. If Poland is such an awful place, why do the main group of expats here enjoy themselves so much?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:18 am    Post subject: It's like talking to a wall...... Reply with quote

I never said you couldn't have fun in Poznan-quite the contrary. Have you got some kind of reading comprehension problem? Yep they're happy....most of them are good mates of mine. None of them owns a car and most of them don't have kids and nearly all of them are in their 30's. Only one of them has a pension. It's a hand to mouth existence. A lot of people had help from mum and dad plc to get their deposits together.

I LIKE POLAND is that clear enough. Do you understand? It's not about liking the place; it's about shabby wages, shabby language schools and poor value for money. You can have a good time anywhere but at some point you have to think about the future and alas, that day will come for the lads too.

The OP is about wages.........they've barely risen in more than a decade. I was making 6K in 97 working 25 hours a week with a free room at the akademik. Would I prefer to live in Poznan? Hell yeah. However, I wouldn't want to do it as a teacher. Value for money? Well, I think the chap looking at places in Florida answered that question. I would hazard a guess and say that you and I are used to very different standards of living. I don't much like the Middle East but it'll pay for me to have a long-term future in Poznan. No pain, no gain.

You're welcome to your opinion but you don't have the contacts I have made over the past 16 years in Poz....so don't get head of yourself. You're trying to sell oil to an Arab.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:23 pm    Post subject: 1 final thing Reply with quote

And 1 final thing: How many women TEFL teachers do you know who've been there as long as the lads? Any?

The lads, myself included, are/were there precisely because of the beer and whisky and beautiful girls; it's got sweet fa to do with the teaching and academic institutions.

For what it's worth, they're the best bunch of lads I've met in 16 years of teaching anywhere in the world. Love seeing them. Several of the gang are close friends.

! or 2 of them have discovered a liking for 'Goracy Kubeks'.....that's how tough it can be out there.
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