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Poles fluent in English sound... posh
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scottie1113



Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 351
Location: Gdansk

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's taken a while, but I've finally accepted that for the rest of my life I'm going to have a slightly silly accent. It's a bitter pill, but I've swallowed it. I hope my students and my British friends will be able to forgive me for speaking clear and understandable English and for pronouncing my r's.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 958
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
I much prefer the IELTS band descriptors which are something like, "has more of the characteristics of silliness of a band 5 than of a band 7". Much more exact.


Of course, he's being, well, silly. Cambridge accepts American spelling and pronunciation. Using standard American English will not cost you any points in Cambridge exams.
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:34 am    Post subject: ha ha Reply with quote

Yeah-just a light hearted poke. But thge 'slightly silly' reference is derived from 'The By Election Special', which is a Python sketch.......Youtube it and have a larf!!!
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 534

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

sharter wrote:
RP English is only a model....I think English learners need to be exposed to as many accents as possible to function effectively in English.


I do like the way that they've made the Cambridge listening tests difficult with the use of different accents - I heard one track that had some Geordie speaking, and I was lost Sad

I'd quite happy argue that the ultimate test would be understanding a conversation between two Indians in English. Aaaa.
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:28 am    Post subject: ha ha Reply with quote

And then add a Filipino to really screw things up!!
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9584
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People seem to forget that when the Jazz Singer was screened on the other side of the Atlantic, few people could make out what the actors were saying...
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 509

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
People seem to forget that when the Jazz Singer was screened on the other side of the Atlantic, few people could make out what the actors were saying...


If this was the case how can one expect an EFL student to understand every possible accent in English? I understand the idea that if you're going to use English to communicate in the world then you have to be able to deal with other non-native speakers, people from Newcastle etc. but some seem meant to confuse unnecessarily. Some people/accents are just hard for the majority to understand, if you're going to go live in Bangalore you will probably start to understand the accent, if not, is it really so important to interpret what the guy behind the counter is mumbling as he hands you your change?
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9584
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparks wrote:
if you're going to use English to communicate in the world then you have to be able to deal with other non-native speakers, people from Newcastle etc.


Very Happy
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9584
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point I was making about the Jazz Singer is that most people think that their or their nationality's accent is very clear - certainly clearer than X nationality. This just isn't the case at all. American English was practically unintelligible to people in Britain before the odd world war and mass media intervened. As evinced by the problems comprehending Al Jolson. How much 'clearer' is that accent then? So to stigmatise Indians or Filipinos and they way they speak English is to forget that Americans were once treated the same way, for much the same reasons. (And this is possibly part of the reason that Poles want to sound 'posh' too...)
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 509

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that multi-culti is the way to go nowadays, but for the sake of making the tests manageable I think they could stick to...say... a "posh" accent, a "neutral" American accent, an Australian (in my ignorance of accent varieties from there, I'll say some sort of neutral Aussie accent), maybe throw in a clear Irish and Canadian accent and call it good enough to deal with the world. Maybe a really, really clear speaking Indian accent. In my local convenience store here in America they just mumble something unintelligible.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 9584
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahem... Cambridge and IELTS tests already do this.
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Yorks Lad



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 70
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time was that standard pronunciation was taught in British schools but the PC brigade didn't like that. In Germany, pupils are taught standard High German which they use at school and in work or formal situations, while still using their local dialect in local, informal situations. That seems an excellent compromise to me - everyone can understand each other but the dialects are in no danger of dying out.

I think it's a real shame we don't do the same. As a nation we seem to have largely given up on speaking other people's languages; we should at least be able to speak ours intelligibly so that foreign learners can understand us!
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hrvatski



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 270

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparks wrote:
an Australian (in my ignorance of accent varieties from there, I'll say some sort of neutral Aussie accent)


You've got broad Australian, standard Australian, cultivated (politician) Australian and Aboriginal Australian English. Then various established ethnic groups have their own distinct accents like the Greeks, Italians, Chinese, Turks, etc.
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PeterParvo



Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised Poles don't take to American English more. It's simpler and the sound/spelling relationships are more consistent.[/quote]

Sorry pal, but we get looked at down the nose no matter what European country it is.
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1033

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeterParvo wrote:
I'm surprised Poles don't take to American English more. It's simpler and the sound/spelling relationships are more consistent.



I think waaaay more poles emulate an american accent than any other. Poles that can speak with a UK accent (with any accuracy) are few and far between.
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