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Will getting permanent residency get harder from 2012?
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
Although Rooster is away, I'd just like to add that I can understand his concern, and I can only echo the statement that there is darned little we can do at the moment. Unless someone wants to contact MOJ directly and ask, the only real tactic is to watch and wait. Perhaps Rooster was fishing for a real solution (not found) or perhaps he merely wanted to have an open thread as an announcement if something should come up from now to July. I suspect both, and there is no real harm in that, IMO, unless one goes overboard.

It may be a stressful point for one to consider. We are all different and take things differently. My advice is to remain watchful and realize that bureaucracies move slowly and not always clearly. Guidelines are not black and white laws, so guidelines are often laid out even more vaguely than we would like.

    * Japan's bureaucracy seems to move slower than many.
    * It usually seems to post Japanese language information first, so translations take time.
    * English translations are not always as complete.
    *The bureaucracy here often waits until the last minute to announce anything, partly IMO because of an inefficient way of operating.
Thank you, Glenski. I think you understand the issue and my reason for starting this thread.

Cool Teacher wrote:
Hey everybody I just got permanent residence and I only had a three year instructor's visa. I applied half-way through the term of instructor visee and I got it. No problem! Very Happy Wink
Congratulations! That must be a great feeling and must give you great peace of mind.

However, I must point out that it is not yet July 9 (the date on which the new regs will take effect). We're still on the old system right now. Therefore, we cannot use your success as a barometer of how easy/difficult it will be to get PR after July 9, 2012.

However, if anyone wants to post a PR application success story/catastrophic failure AFTER July 9, 2012 (once we are operating under the new regs), I would love to hear it.
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the4th2001



Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 130
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was talking with my boss the other day about immigration/naturalization issues and he gave me the best (and probably most Japsnese) advice so far.

"If you're having problems, go make some new friends. Everything falls into place after that."

When in Rome I guess. lol. Good luck Rooster.
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 891
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
Cool Teacher wrote:
Hey everybody I just got permanent residence and I only had a three year instructor's visa. I applied half-way through the term of instructor visee and I got it. No problem! Very Happy Wink
Congratulations! That must be a great feeling and must give you great peace of mind.

However, I must point out that it is not yet July 9 (the date on which the new regs will take effect). We're still on the old system right now. Therefore, we cannot use your success as a barometer of how easy/difficult it will be to get PR after July 9, 2012.

However, if anyone wants to post a PR application success story/catastrophic failure AFTER July 9, 2012 (once we are operating under the new regs), I would love to hear it.


Thanks! Yeah it is great and I'm happy about it but I don't think I was special. (well, to my mum and wife I hope so but not to immigration! Very Happy )

They were helpful on the help desk and told me what I needed. I don't think they ever asked about length of vias stamp but wanted some history of me being in Japan. They also want history of before you come. Tehre are some really wierd things like, what was your primary school and other things. Shocked
Wink
Your right that my expericence might not be useful because my aplication happende befoer these rules (before I heard about them too, actually!" but I think the main thing is length of stay, taxes, reason for staying, fixed address etc... My oponion is that the 5-year visa hoops is not much to worry about. I think the immigration site gives exmpales of people turned down for visas and they tend to be for bad reasons for staying, no contribution to Japan, etc... Wink

I think you'll be fine... [famous last words? Shocked ]
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just so people who don't have PR know, when I got mine a few short years ago, they never asked things like what elementary school I went to. I merely filled out the standard forms (in duplicate), and waited. No interview (like some people claim has happened to them), no visits to my home or (as far as I know) talks with my neighbors or no criminal checks, and certainly no history of me prior to coming to Japan. The only thing I had to write for an explanation of applying for PR was barely able to fit on the short line provided on the form. I wrote something like "I want to stay in Japan with my family and continue to work".

Granted, Japan's bureaucracy is often labeled as a "case by case" one, that is how simple it was.
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 891
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
Just so people who don't have PR know, when I got mine a few short years ago, they never asked things like what elementary school I went to. I merely filled out the standard forms (in duplicate), and waited. No interview (like some people claim has happened to them), no visits to my home or (as far as I know) talks with my neighbors or no criminal checks, and certainly no history of me prior to coming to Japan. The only thing I had to write for an explanation of applying for PR was barely able to fit on the short line provided on the form. I wrote something like "I want to stay in Japan with my family and continue to work".

Granted, Japan's bureaucracy is often labeled as a "case by case" one, that is how simple it was.



Yeah it is not always easy to knwo what they will ask but at immigration they told me on the desk that that one little line would not be enought.

Shocked

They said I should write more stuff but maybe Glenski had an easier application because of his marriage to a lady in Japan. If you have that and a spouse visa things are probably smoother. But if not then you have to justify yourself a bit more I think. Wink
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 891
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way these are some good example of sucessful and unsucessful applications from the ministyr:

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/zairyuu/eizyuu.html

My advice is don't say you "allegedly" do something Very Happy

Quote:
[Unsuccessful Applicants for Permanent Residence Status]
(Case #1)
The applicant allegedly produces, fosters and exports Japanese race horses, serves as a management consultant for horse-producing farmers and gives lectures. However, the immigration control authority denied the permanent residence status because the applicant has stayed in Japan only for a short period (1 year and a half).

(Case #2)
The applicant allegedly produces and owns many fine art works as an artist painter and donates his works to newly-opened art museums. However, the immigration control authority denied the permanent residence status because the applicant has a bad record (he was involved inforeign national's illegal stay in Japan).

(Case #3)
The applicant allegedly serves as a teacher at an educational institute forforeign national's children's. However, the immigration control authority denied the permanent residence status because such applicant's activities do not fall under social contribution to Japan.

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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Teacher wrote:
By the way these are some good example of sucessful and unsucessful applications from the ministyr:

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/zairyuu/eizyuu.html
But they're not good examples, because they mislead people into thinking that only a "special contribution" to Japan can get you PR. While that may be true of getting it in less than ten years, it is not true of getting it in 10+ years.

All of the PR recipients on the page you linked to are extraordinary people with extraordinary talents. I mean, for Christ's sake, World Cup soccer player? Order of the Rising Sun?

Many ordinary people get PR, too, and that site pretends they don't exist.

The above site is wrong and outdated and I wish the MOJ would take it down already so it could stop misleading people.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In what way is that site wrong for getting PR in >10 years?
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
In what way is that site wrong for getting PR in >10 years?
Did you mean <10 years?
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 891
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
Glenski wrote:
In what way is that site wrong for getting PR in >10 years?
Did you mean <10 years?


Maybe he meant d(>.<)10 years!!
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Inflames



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 416

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone has been here more than 10 years, has paid their taxes and hasn't had legal problems then getting PR is usually easy. Criminal and tax checks are part of the procedure - you might not know it but they do run them. An acquaintance who ran a bar became friends with the PR inspection people when they came to inspect his business and check on his taxes - I've met them at his bar (they were drinking after work).
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inflames wrote:
If someone has been here more than 10 years, has paid their taxes and hasn't had legal problems then getting PR is usually easy.
Okay, great.

But that still says nothing about whether it will still be easy after July 9, 2012 when the new regs take effect.
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1322
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
But that still says nothing about whether it will still be easy after July 9, 2012 when the new regs take effect.


That cuts both ways. It is just as perfectly reasonable to assume that it will remain substantially the same in terms of "how easy".

The reality is that PR is easy in Japan compared to many countries. Even if they do make it harder then they'd still be doing no more than bringing it into line with most other countries. You want a contrast, try getting PR (under most visa classes) in the US. That's an unpleasant (& slow & expensive) experience.


...Hang on: you're not actually implying that Japan shouldn't have any right to do as they please with their PR system, are you?
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
Glenski wrote:
In what way is that site wrong for getting PR in >10 years?
Did you mean <10 years?
No, you wrote "it is not true of getting it in 10+ years. " To me 10+ years is the same as >10 years.
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G Cthulhu wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
But that still says nothing about whether it will still be easy after July 9, 2012 when the new regs take effect.


That cuts both ways. It is just as perfectly reasonable to assume that it will remain substantially the same in terms of "how easy".
No, it is not "perfectly reasonable to assume" anything. Not when your long-term immigration status is on the line.

G Cthulhu wrote:
The reality is that PR is easy in Japan compared to many countries. Even if they do make it harder then they'd still be doing no more than bringing it into line with most other countries. You want a contrast, try getting PR (under most visa classes) in the US. That's an unpleasant (& slow & expensive) experience.
Whether Japan's system is "harder" or "easier" than other countries is completely irrelevant to this thread. We are not living in the US, so I don't see why you brought the US into this discussion. The US is just one country among 100+ countries. While you're bringing up PR regs in random countries that aren't Japan, why not talk about the PR regulations in Zambia? Or the PR regulations in Moldova?

Stop trying to divert the thread, G Cthulhu. We are talking about Japan (i.e. the county where we are currently living), not the US.


G Cthulhu wrote:
...Hang on: you're not actually implying that Japan shouldn't have any right to do as they please with their PR system, are you?
What I think Japan has the "right to do" is completely irrelevant to this thread. This thread is dedicated to finding out what the regulations are. Not editorializing about what they should be.

You're trying to draw me into a debate. This thread is not meant for debating. It's meant for sharing information on the new regs (which you appear not to have).

So unless you actually have any new information on the regs that will take effect on July 9, 2012, please stop posting in here. This thread is not meant to editorialize or have stupid debates about what "should" or "shouldn't" be, or whether Japan is "easier" than the US or any other random country. It is meant to find out the actual specifics of the regs. Stop itching for a debate when there isn't one.
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