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It's Scary!
Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 823
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:57 am Post subject: |
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sliim wrote: |
My apologies johnslat.
I should have known better than to feed a troll. |
Slim: If'n you knew about John vis-a-vis Iran as I know about him, you'd realize how shameful you've been towards him.
It's about all I've got to say! |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Dear sliim,
Yup, I'm a troll - the telltale signs are all there. Unlike you -
1. I chose most of my real name as my user handle
2. I disclose my actual location
3. I have close to 10,000 posts on this forum
So, tell me - how's the weather in the Bizarro universe?
Regards,
John |
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sliim
Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 55
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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johnslat,
I was unaware that the three points you listed, plus your time in Iran, gave you a license for superciliousness. Forgive me for not first taking a look at your credentials. They are indeed quite impressive. And you are right, there is nothing trollish at all about your tone, nor in your overkill on the emoticons.
One can only hope that when mashkif "grows up," as you paternalistically put it, he/she will one day be able fill cyberspace with wisdom as yourself. I know that after reading your posts, I truly feel enlightened. Thank you for what you have bestowed upon us children.
Now, please take a look in the mirror before you accuse the author of the article in question of having too much of a sense of self-importance.
And as this thread has descended into childishness, it has become tedious and of no use to the general reader. I have nothing more to say on this topic. If you would like to have a last word, be my guest. Or, rather, as you tend to live here, I suppose that I am yours.
You have been most hospitable. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Dear sliim,
Aw, shucks - don't mention it. I live to serve.
Regards,
John |
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sliim
Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 55
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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I am glad we could work things out. I would hate to have a bad relationship with such a prolific author.
But I wonder, assuming the moderators have advanced degrees, can you say that your 10 000 publications have been subject to peer review?
That would be quite an achievement! |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Dear sliim,
Given your opinion of me, I surprised you seem to assume that I might think I HAVE any peers .
Regards,
John |
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sliim
Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 55
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:11 am Post subject: |
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John,
Don't say that.
I have a good opinion of you. But somehow your words get me in the mood for a bit of verbal sparring.
My posts may be pointed a bit, but in all sincerity (and with NO sarcasm), I wish you the very best.
I hate to say it, but I like your posts a lot. There are some of the only ones out there worth replying to. :) |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Dear sliim,
Why, thank you very much. I've got to admit - that was a pleasant surprise.
I don't enjoy bickering with others - although doing so does seem to stimulate my few remaining brain cells.
I wish you (and mashkif, too, really) only the best, as well. I apologize for what was, as you pointed out, my patronizing tone. His/Her attitude about how one should behave in a police state ("I say this from Iraq but I would happily say it in Bahrain and to hell with the consequences.") is worrisome, though, and, given the wrong set of circumstances, could easily result in tragedy.
I sincerely hope that never happens.
Regards,
John |
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sliim
Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 55
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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johnslat,
I agree that the tone of those words is worrisome, but I take it more as an expression of frustration rather than a literal statement.
For me, I never had a good time teaching in the ME, and that is something of a paradox. I loved the students, the music, the language, the cusine, the weather, the architecture, the slow afternoons, and the bustling nights during Ramadhan. But it is hard to be happy when one sees the enormous economic stratification, the lack of information and transparency, the conditions of immigrant workers, the corruption, bribery, extortion, and general disarray.
The chaos of it all is humorous at first, and for a foreigner it can always be shrugged off with a smile. After all, when things get too hectic, one can always book a flight home.
But for the locals who have to live in those conditions, life is often hard, and that is taxing on the spirit.
And now that we are on good terms, I would like to you to know, should you ever take a vacation in Bizarro Universe, to feel free to look me up. Just ask where Mr. Sliim's house is, and the locals will provide you with the directions. :D |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Dear sliim,
" . . . but I take it more as an expression of frustration rather than a literal statement."
I hope you're right - but people sometimes talk themselves into having to live up to such statements.
"But it is hard to be happy when one sees the enormous economic stratification, the lack of information and transparency, the conditions of immigrant workers, the corruption, bribery, extortion, and general disarray."
Well, happy would be, in my case, too strong a word. I was, however, relatively content. But honestly, many of the conditions you mention can be found in a good number of other places besides the Middle East. I learned a while back that saving the world is beyond my powers - and not part of my job description. Indeed, saving only myself may be more than I can handle. I try to do what I can, where I can, when I can, but actions always have consequences, often unintended ones, and if one is lucky, one proceeds by trial and error, surviving the trials and learning from the errors.
Idealism can be dangerous. This puts is well, I think:
"In its mission statement, WikiLeaks insists, reasonably, that a free society must protect journalists, a point echoed by well meaning defenders. �In its landmark ruling on the Pentagon Papers, the US Supreme Court ruled that �only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government.� We agree.� Well, duh and duh again. Legality is only one issue.
What is right ought to carry some moral weight. When Philip Agee left the CIA and published the names of 250 secret operatives around the world, he was breaking no law. But two identified British agents were executed in Poland as a result, and the revealed head of the Athens CIA station was assassinated. Those are only what was made public. Even though it was completely legal, the outrage in the free world was ubiquitous.
Decades later, when Bush senior deputy Karl Rove directed that Valarie Plame�s secret role as a CIA spy be revealed, it was to strike back at her husband, Ambassador Joe Wilson, for putting the lie to claims of nukes in Iraq. The outing of Plame also made public the �company� she worked for as a CIA front, which revealed the identities of other CIA operatives. The damage cascaded. Every informant with Plame or the other agents was put into some degree of danger. Defenders of Rove went to law books and calendars to make the argument that Plame had not been in service long enough to put Rove into technical criminality.
The year 2000 brought with it a new millennium, the election of sorts of a new Republican President, and a new ethic: that what matters is not what is right, but what can be gotten away with at the edges of the law. Secrecy does disguise many instances of evil. Occasionally, it also keeps ordinary people of good will from getting killed when they take huge risks. And sometimes it leads to a reduction of not-made-up-for-invasion chances of poisonous mushrooms. The distinction between good and evil escapes this elite band of brothers: Agee, Rove, and Assange."
http://madmikesamerica.com/2011/01/wikileaks-idealists-putting-good-people-in-mortal-danger/
Seeing the world in stark contrasts of all good and all evil, darkest black and purest white, is, I'd say, fine for Hollywood, but doesn't work too well in reality. The world is a far more complex, complicated place than that.
Thank you for your kind invitation. I believe that a fairly strong case could be made the Middle East IS the Bizarro Universe - or at least as close to it as we can get. And I'm afraid that although I spent a lot of time there, I won't likely be returning. However, should you ever be in the vicinity of my "disclosed location," please accept my offer of hospitality
Regards,
John |
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isabel
Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 510 Location: God's green earth
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:32 am Post subject: |
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If I were to have been caught up in events like those in Bahrain while I was working in the tragic Kingdom, I am not sure what I would have done. I imagine I would have taken the risk of filming, and then have someone else, somewhere else, post it. Ditto the Facebook comments. Being caught up in a fairly black and white rebellion is different than witnessing the every day indignities of life in a police state.
If I were to see my students disappear or get caught up in the police web of interrogation and torture, could I stand idly by? The teacher in question showed restraint in that regard. Admirable restraint.
I am going to assume that others taking the high ground here never were directly involved in revolutionary events where they were teaching. It is easy to criticize from the armchair, but what really would you do if they started hauling away your students? |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Dear isabel,
"I am going to assume that others taking the high ground here never were directly involved in revolutionary events where they were teaching. It is easy to criticize from the armchair, but what really would you do if they started hauling away your students?"
Iran - August 1978 to April 1979. No facebook then - years before the Internet "went public."
The people "being disappeared" by the Revolutionary Guard were suspected of being SAVAK agents. I very much doubt they all were.
Should I have intervened?
Regards,
John |
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isabel
Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 510 Location: God's green earth
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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What should you have done? Only you know that. But it is a godawful position to be in.
Trying to get information out and intervening are two different things. I didn't see that the teacher in question intervened directly- he just tried to get info out. For lack of social networks, that would have been hard to do.
I have taken risks, sometimes stupid risks, so I know I would be tempted to at least get info out, and maybe try to protect someone. Not everyone is so inclined, but we all have to ask the question. |
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fledex
Joined: 05 Jun 2011 Posts: 342
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:34 am Post subject: |
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[quote="mashkif"]
johnslat wrote: |
The most infuriating part in the whole story is that America and the West have bought the regime propaganda about its being the bulwark against Iranian encroachment in the region (and I'm not fan of Iran by a long shot), and are persistently turning a blind eye to violent and brutal suppression and harassment conducted by regime mercenaries every single day against tens of thousands of people. |
It's not Iran that causes the Obama administration to support the Bahrain regime's atrocities by sending them weapons. It's Saudi Arabia and the US support of KSA that causes the problem. See what Human Rights Watch's director has to say, http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2012/5/8/part_2_human_rights_watchs_kenneth_roth_on_palestinian_prisoners_saudi_arabias_role_in_bahrain |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Dear fledex,
Would you mind directing me to the post where I wrote that?
"johnslat wrote:
The most infuriating part in the whole story is that America and the West have bought the regime propaganda about its being the bulwark against Iranian encroachment in the region (and I'm not fan of Iran by a long shot), and are persistently turning a blind eye to violent and brutal suppression and harassment conducted by regime mercenaries every single day against tens of thousands of people."
I don't recall authoring it, but if I did, I need to watch out for run-on sentences .
Regards,
John |
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