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sparks
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 632
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 Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| You mean NOT riding the train for 4 hours so that they can get home and eat mommy's home made pierogi and barszcz? THAT is just asking too much, Delph. Sitting in a room staring at each other every weekend is far more important than self empowerment and betterment Confused |
Oh come on now! When you were first sitting at home in America I'll bet that at least on some tiny level, one of the reasons you wanted to go to Europa was the "relaxed" culture, the idea that life isn't all about work. Perhaps you had visions of people sipping coffee in street cafes, maybe a bottle of vodka on a table full of food. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:27 am Post subject: |
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sparks wrote:
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| When you were first sitting at home in America I'll bet that at least on some tiny level, one of the reasons you wanted to go to Europa was the "relaxed" culture, the idea that life isn't all about work. Perhaps you had visions of people sipping coffee in street cafes, maybe a bottle of vodka on a table full of food. |
Well.....yeah! But......what does that have to do with my point, dude? |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
sparks wrote:
| Quote: |
| When you were first sitting at home in America I'll bet that at least on some tiny level, one of the reasons you wanted to go to Europa was the "relaxed" culture, the idea that life isn't all about work. Perhaps you had visions of people sipping coffee in street cafes, maybe a bottle of vodka on a table full of food. |
Well.....yeah! But......what does that have to do with my point, dude? |
I think the point is that many come to (or stay in) Poland for the more relaxed lifestyle and attitude to work.
Unlike America, people here aren't so willing to commute 4 hours to work on a Sunday so they can buy a new flat screen TV that is bigger than their neighbors'. Summer is time for vacations, not just for kids, but for working people too. Beautiful nymphs frolic on the beaches and rainbows lead to magic mushrooms in the forest...
Sure, you earn less here comparatively. But for most, it's enough.You can't put a price tag on 'having an enjoyable job, enough free time and living in a pleasant environment.' Many Americans can't say they have that. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Shake wrote:
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| Sure, you earn less here comparatively. But for most, it's enough. |
I think you're making a mistake saying "most". Go walk around all those communist blocks in any Polish city and ask people if they make "enough". The mass exodus of Poles to other EU countries in the last 10 years is evidence to that.
Shake wrote:
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| You can't put a price tag on 'having an enjoyable job, enough free time and living in a pleasant environment.' Many Americans can't say they have that. |
We're getting way off topic and i still don't see why you are bringing this stuff up, it doesn't really apply to what i was saying, but if I were to comment on this, I'd say that there are many things Americans have that Poles don't that you can't put a price tag on. Every country has its own treasures that money can't buy. |
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Jack Walker
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Mr.Master Shake,I'd have to disgaree.
I found the Poles to be more cut throat,aggressive,money hungry,materialistic and money obsessed than any North American I've ever encountered.
Laid back and chilled......see the Australians and New Zealanders. Poles are generally nice ppl but constantly stressed out and a bit mental....especially the women!
Nymphs frolicking on the beach??? I think not.
Capitalism is still a relatively new concept for Poles and they all want it now even if most can't afford it.Personal debt there is high and if it wasn't for the 3 free flats given to them from Babcia and Dzadek they all seem to have,they'd be really struggling to get by.
It always amazed me how even the poor students there seem to be all real estate Lords with a few flats rented out.Lol!
The Poles always keep their financial cards very close to their chest. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Jack Walker wrote:
[quote]
I found the Poles to be more cut throat,aggressive,money hungry,materialistic and money obsessed than any North American I've ever encountered.
[quote]
maybe it's just because north americans go about it in a different way. same end goal, just different methods?
| Quote: |
| Poles are generally nice ppl but constantly stressed out and a bit mental |
i'd have to agree and i think a lot of it has to do with lifestyle.
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| Nymphs frolicking on the beach |
Poland has beaches?  Let's be honest, how many weeks out of the year do you have in Poland for "frolicking"? I've seen weather in July unfit for beach activities.
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| It always amazed me how even the poor students there seem to be all real estate Lords with a few flats rented out.Lol! |
right?!!!
here's another phenomenon I used to see all the time in Poland. a successful business man, tons of cash, drives a newer Mercedes, even dresses well, yet he lives in Dumpity Dumpyland Gora where you're lucky to find a paved road and a Biedronka. It's like even when some Poles have money, they don't know what to do with it to improve their lives, which makes me wonder if it's because they were so isolated in the past that they simply don't know what else is out there. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
Shake wrote:
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| Sure, you earn less here comparatively. But for most, it's enough. |
I think you're making a mistake saying "most". Go walk around all those communist blocks in any Polish city and ask people if they make "enough". The mass exodus of Poles to other EU countries in the last 10 years is evidence to that. |
I meant that expat ESL-ers can earn enough cash in PL. Hence the 'you.'
Anyway, I agree that many Poles would never admit they earn enough, whether they're Biedronka cashiers or company managers. Constantly being dissatisfied with success and their lot in life is an ugly part of the culture.
| dynow wrote: |
Shake wrote:
| Quote: |
| You can't put a price tag on 'having an enjoyable job, enough free time and living in a pleasant environment.' Many Americans can't say they have that. |
We're getting way off topic and i still don't see why you are bringing this stuff up, it doesn't really apply to what i was saying, but if I were to comment on this, I'd say that there are many things Americans have that Poles don't that you can't put a price tag on. Every country has its own treasures that money can't buy. |
A thread getting off topic?? Jumping gee willikers, dynow! Than's never happened here before...
Sure every country has it's treasures. A lot of Americans have precious little time to enjoy theirs. What with working 50+ hours every week and spending hours in the car commuting each day.
Jack, I guess you got mixed in with the wrong crowd over here. What you wrote doesn't fit my experience at all. And I teach in Warsaw, which is pretty business oriented. |
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Jack Walker
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yes,I guess we are a little off topic here, but given the fact that the Polish boards are generally dead and not as dynamic and interesting as the Korean boards for exampe,these little off the course tangents help keep this place somewhat interesting during this dead period.
Mr.Shake,maybe I did hang out with a different crowd, but I've always felt that the average Pole is just as materially obsessed and money driven as the average North American or Western European.Even worse in some respects.We want the world and we want it now kind of mentally.
One of the main hobbies of your average Pole is hanging out at Media Market on a Saturday and ogling the new technology or devising schemes on how to get credit to purchase it. I don't see that as much over here.
Speaking of frolicking on the beaches in Poland,I had many a summer vacation at the Baltic sea during my years there, and the water is always ice cold and the weather windy and cool on the best of days.
Sure you do get to see some topless chicks occasionally, but the Polish women only tend to get partially nude on the Greek and Italian beaches.On Polish soil. they play the good Catholic girl role very well with large one piece bikinis that would make babcia proud.  |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:13 pm Post subject: erm |
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I gotta agree with Jack here. I think Poles are really materialistic. In Poznan they can be really stuck up too when they've got a few quid about them. Polish guys are dawgs for bigging themselves up when the reality is they don't even buy their dates drinks.
The women look great but how many are self-obsessed and really vain. The false nails, the constant hair colour changes, the look-at-me micro dresses (not complaining). If they weren't materialistic, very few of the native speakers would have the calibre of partners they've got. They used to have a really notorious reputation in the UK.
But hey, I keep going back and I genuinely love the time I spend there. |
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Jack Walker
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Well said Mr.Sharter. The average Polish gal is generally fit but her eyes are always on your wallet and looking for the next big catch. They are always looking to upgrade financially. Princess syndrome big time. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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mastershake wrote:
| Quote: |
| Sure every country has it's treasures. A lot of Americans have precious little time to enjoy theirs. What with working 50+ hours every week and spending hours in the car commuting each day.\. |
as if people living in cities in Poland don't do the same? it's no different here or there.
Jack Walker wrote:
| Quote: |
| Speaking of frolicking on the beaches in Poland,I had many a summer vacation at the Baltic sea during my years there, and the water is always ice cold and the weather windy and cool on the best of days. |
agreed.
Jack Walker wrote:
| Quote: |
One of the main hobbies of your average Pole is hanging out at Media Market on a Saturday and ogling the new technology or devising schemes on how to get credit to purchase it. I don't see that as much over here.
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most likely due to less dreaming, more buying. "stuff" is simply easier to acquire in North America for the average North American. lower prices, no VAT, higher salaries, stronger currency. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: erm |
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| dynow wrote: |
| Valid. My favorite were the Poles studying "Polish Philology". Even better, Ph D.'s in "Polish Philology". |
Yup, mostly unemployment factories. I know a grand total of two successful graduates of that - one of them was pestering anyone and everyone for some office experience during her 5 years, and the other one specialised in teaching kindergarten kids with problems in spoken Polish.
Okay, so there are teachers who are successful too - but apart from that, a grand total of 2 good jobs is a sign of just how poor the studies are.
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| I think part of the problem is culture. Nobody works till they're in their 20's and they have no concept of what makes money and what wastes money. The state is partially to blame because they're paying for these directionless degrees. |
Totally agreed - I think it's why the ones driving around nice cars tend to be morons - because they didn't waste their time, but rather rolled up their sleeves and got on with it. It's actually shocking to see how many students regard working during the holidays as "wrong" - and with my example of running away at the weekend, it's not hard to see why employers are reluctant to take risks with them.
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| even so, those jobs don't run deep into the job market. a few exist and they end up going to either the insanely bright or the "it's who you know" crowd. |
It does depend on the discipline - good IT graduates will never have issues with jobs in Poland. With the example I gave - they were hiring people straight from university, but they demanded an incredibly high level of knowledge of certain programming languages. The pay and conditions are fantastic - but they were only after the best. Those who bummed around in the mountains during their holidays certainly didn't get hired.
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| Again, valid, but it's part of their culture. Socialist country, safety nets, not having to work for 20+ years....they're not well equipped for looking for more and many of them won't get the advice they need from their parents. Once the communist generations die out, things may change. |
I don't disagree. When you consider that there are people graduating after 25 years alive with no valid work experience, it's absolutely shocking. I've been going over CV's at the minute - and the amount with absolutely no relevant experience (even voluntary) is shocking. Many of them have got things like "hostess" and "bar staff" - err. Come on - is it really that hard to spend 2-4 weeks a year getting experience in a relevant job?
I'd take someone under my wing in a second if they wanted experience - I don't know about the United States, but in the UK, it's quite normal for people to offer work experience for those that want it. Yet - they don't even ask.
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You mean NOT riding the train for 4 hours so that they can get home and eat mommy's home made pierogi and barszcz? THAT is just asking too much, Delph. Sitting in a room staring at each other every weekend is far more important than self empowerment and betterment  |
Don't get me started. Don't get me started on the idiotic Government-subsidised weekend trips because Mummy demands to see them. Don't get me started on the way that many of them refuse to work over long weekends and the like because you know, they just need to go home. And don't get me started on the way that they actually allow it to influence their lives to such an extent that they'll give up decent opportunities.
Does this braindead culture of going home every weekend (even if it's 4 hours away) exist in the USA too? It doesn't exist in the UK - and it exasperates me. It even exists among young people employed full time - I just cannot understand it.
One thing I'd love to figure out - is it that the kids are needy morons, or is it that the parents demand to see them? I can't work it out. |
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Jack Walker
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: erm |
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| delphian-domine wrote: |
| dynow wrote: |
| Valid. My favorite were the Poles studying "Polish Philology". Even better, Ph D.'s in "Polish Philology". |
Yup, mostly unemployment factories. I know a grand total of two successful graduates of that - one of them was pestering anyone and everyone for some office experience during her 5 years, and the other one specialised in teaching kindergarten kids with problems in spoken Polish.
Okay, so there are teachers who are successful too - but apart from that, a grand total of 2 good jobs is a sign of just how poor the studies are.
| Quote: |
| I think part of the problem is culture. Nobody works till they're in their 20's and they have no concept of what makes money and what wastes money. The state is partially to blame because they're paying for these directionless degrees. |
Totally agreed - I think it's why the ones driving around nice cars tend to be morons - because they didn't waste their time, but rather rolled up their sleeves and got on with it. It's actually shocking to see how many students regard working during the holidays as "wrong" - and with my example of running away at the weekend, it's not hard to see why employers are reluctant to take risks with them.
| Quote: |
| even so, those jobs don't run deep into the job market. a few exist and they end up going to either the insanely bright or the "it's who you know" crowd. |
It does depend on the discipline - good IT graduates will never have issues with jobs in Poland. With the example I gave - they were hiring people straight from university, but they demanded an incredibly high level of knowledge of certain programming languages. The pay and conditions are fantastic - but they were only after the best. Those who bummed around in the mountains during their holidays certainly didn't get hired.
| Quote: |
| Again, valid, but it's part of their culture. Socialist country, safety nets, not having to work for 20+ years....they're not well equipped for looking for more and many of them won't get the advice they need from their parents. Once the communist generations die out, things may change. |
I don't disagree. When you consider that there are people graduating after 25 years alive with no valid work experience, it's absolutely shocking. I've been going over CV's at the minute - and the amount with absolutely no relevant experience (even voluntary) is shocking. Many of them have got things like "hostess" and "bar staff" - err. Come on - is it really that hard to spend 2-4 weeks a year getting experience in a relevant job?
I'd take someone under my wing in a second if they wanted experience - I don't know about the United States, but in the UK, it's quite normal for people to offer work experience for those that want it. Yet - they don't even ask.
| Quote: |
| You mean NOT riding the train for 4 hours so that they can get home and eat mommy's home made pierogi and barszcz? THAT is just asking too much, Delph. Sitting in a room staring at each other every weekend is far more important than self empowerment and betterment |
Don't get me started. Don't get me started on the idiotic Government-subsidised weekend trips because Mummy demands to see them. Don't get me started on the way that many of them refuse to work over long weekends and the like because you know, they just need to go home. And don't get me started on the way that they actually allow it to influence their lives to such an extent that they'll give up decent opportunities.
Does this braindead culture of going home every weekend (even if it's 4 hours away) exist in the USA too? It doesn't exist in the UK - and it exasperates me. It even exists among young people employed full time - I just cannot understand it.
One thing I'd love to figure out - is it that the kids are needy morons, or is it that the parents demand to see them? I can't work it out. |
I think it has more to do with Poland being a family oriented society.Family is usually paramount and takes precedence over jobs and friends etc.
Many a tough looking street hooligan in Poland are real "matka" boys when it comes down to it. I overheard many an interesting conversation on the trams and buses between tough looking hooligan characters and their moms.
"Barscz for supper Pawel?? Jajecznica and chleb?" Don't forget top put your hat on,it's cold out" etc etc |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: erm |
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| Jack Walker wrote: |
| I think it has more to do with Poland being a family oriented society.Family is usually paramount and takes precedence over jobs and friends etc. |
Could be, but I think it's stupid at the age of 25 to put your family over starting a career - good jobs are hard enough to come by for young women, yet they seem to constantly ruin it for themselves. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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delph wrote:
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| Does this braindead culture of going home every weekend (even if it's 4 hours away) exist in the USA too? |
OMG no.
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| I think it's why the ones driving around nice cars tend to be morons - because they didn't waste their time, but rather rolled up their sleeves and got on with it. |
or because they were up to somethin'
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| Could be, but I think it's stupid at the age of 25 to put your family over starting a career - good jobs are hard enough to come by for young women, yet they seem to constantly ruin it for themselves. |
communism, communism, communism. poland still does not have a grasp of the free market like much of the developed world does. their parents don't get it, so they don't get it.
one of the main reasons i had to get out of poland is that i flat out could not relate to people anymore, this subject being a big one. spending my whole life working with old world mentalities....no thank you. Americans can be pretty idiotic as well but I chose the lesser of two evils  |
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