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ARC or JFRV?

 
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SJD



Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: ARC or JFRV? Reply with quote

I was chatting with some people on Forumosa about this topic, but I've still got some unresolved questions in my mind. I thought I'd run them by you guys.

My spouse (Taiwanese ), and I are going to be returning to Taiwan shortly to live. I'm wondering if I should apply for a JFRV or just get an ARC like I did before we were married?

People have told me some of the advantages of having a JFRV (unrestricted work rights, easier to leave a crummy job situation, etc...), but what I mostly concerned about is the perception of employers in terms of hiring.

Some people have said that many schools like teachers with a JFRV or APRC because it's less of a hassle, but what I've found is that almost every school advertising on sites like Tealit offer an ARC to the teacher they hire. This kind of makes me nervous and wonder if having a JFRV might actually be a disadvantage in applying to many schools? Maybe all of these schools on Tealit are offering an ARC, not only because they think they will have to, but also because they want to. Obviously some schools would prefer a teacher with a JFRV/APRC, but maybe there are more out there that actually want to sponsor their teachers for whatever reason.

Basically, my question is, should I apply for a JFRV or not? Do you think having it would increase or decrease my ability to find work? Your thoughts are appreciated, and especially from those of you who have a JFRV and can give some insight into your own experiences.

Thanks!
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: ARC or JFRV? Reply with quote

SJD wrote:
I was chatting with some people on Forumosa about this topic, but I've still got some unresolved questions in my mind. I thought I'd run them by you guys.

My spouse (Taiwanese ), and I are going to be returning to Taiwan shortly to live. I'm wondering if I should apply for a JFRV or just get an ARC like I did before we were married?

People have told me some of the advantages of having a JFRV (unrestricted work rights, easier to leave a crummy job situation, etc...), but what I mostly concerned about is the perception of employers in terms of hiring.

Some people have said that many schools like teachers with a JFRV or APRC because it's less of a hassle, but what I've found is that almost every school advertising on sites like Tealit offer an ARC to the teacher they hire. This kind of makes me nervous and wonder if having a JFRV might actually be a disadvantage in applying to many schools? Maybe all of these schools on Tealit are offering an ARC, not only because they think they will have to, but also because they want to. Obviously some schools would prefer a teacher with a JFRV/APRC, but maybe there are more out there that actually want to sponsor their teachers for whatever reason.

Basically, my question is, should I apply for a JFRV or not? Do you think having it would increase or decrease my ability to find work? Your thoughts are appreciated, and especially from those of you who have a JFRV and can give some insight into your own experiences.

Thanks!
Yes, you should apply for the JFRV.

This isn't even debatable.

Employers generally slightly prefer the JFRV because it's less hassle. A JFRV gives you a host of legal rights and privileges that regular ARC holders can only dream of. And any schools that prefer teachers be on a regular ARC are probably schools that want to keep their teachers on a short leash. Do you really want to work for someone like that?

This question is almost like asking:
"Which should I live in? A house or a two-man tent? I think houses are better on the whole, but I've noticed that occasionally, in the newspaper, they talk about houses collapsing and killing their occupants, which is something I won't have to worry about if I live in a two-man tent. Any thoughts?"
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SJD



Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Employers generally slightly prefer the JFRV because it's less hassle


What do you base this on? Do you have a JFRV or have your friends with a JFRV said this? Or maybe employers have mentioned this to you? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just trying to get an idea of what makes you think than employers prefer the JFRV? To me it seems intuitive as well that employers would prefer the JFRV, but that in itself doesn't make it true. I would be interested to know what makes you feel this way.
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dangerousapple



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 292

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I like about the JFRV is the fact that I don't need to be in the country but I can still retain my residency (except for the tax goons, but that's a whole different story). There are a lot more hoops to jump through during the application process, but once you've got it it's easy to renew and you can pretty much live your life without answering to anyone except your wife. From the individual's viewpoint, the JFRV is much better.

But,

A lot of employers actually will hesitate before hiring someone on a JFRV. Because we have open work priviledges, we have a bit of a reputation for being unreliable employees. Schools want someone that they know will consistently show up for work on time, and pressure from the work permit / ARC makes sure that teachers do that.

However, a JFRV allows you to be unemployed without getting into trouble, giving you time to find a job at a school that doesn't mind, so in the end, it's still a better choice.
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SJD



Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A lot of employers actually will hesitate before hiring someone on a JFRV. Because we have open work priviledges, we have a bit of a reputation for being unreliable employees.


Interesting. This is kind of what I was thinking might be the case. Have employers told you this, or have other people on a JFRV mentioned something like this? It's just that I've read a lot of posts here and there about employers preferring a person with a JFRV, but those people never really say how they know that, beyond intuition. I'm wondering if you have had any conversations with schools like this, "I'm sorry, but we don't hire teachers with a JFRV. We insist on sponsoring all of our teachers at this school." Have you experienced something like this?

Also, I'm wondering when do you bring up your JFRV with schools. Like if you apply for a job on tealit for example, do you put it on your CV or mention it when you email your resume or....? Or if you drop a resume off at a school, do you tell them while you're there that you have a JFRV? I'm curious how that whole conversation comes up and how you handle that. Any advice would definately be appreciated.
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dangerousapple



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 292

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm a school owner, so I have an opinion based on both sides of the divide.

Before I became a school owner, I was told explicitly by prospective bosses that they weren't sure if they wanted to hire me because JFRV holders tend to quit jobs without giving notice. I had to convince them that I wouldn't be a threat, and my resume showed that I was a stable teacher. I also provided references. I was always upfront about my visa status, what I could provide, and what I needed from the job, and I never had any major difficulties. If you haven't been a jackass at your last schools, and you can show that you stuck out your last couple of teaching contracts, then the schools will feel more comfortable about hiring you.

Now that I own a school, I too hesitate before hiring a JFRV holder. What can I say, the last two times that I hired one, they both left after only a few months, and with minimal warning. My other staff are all long-term staff, and some of them have been with me for more than 3 years, so it shouldn't be an issue of my school being a terrible place to work. Both of those teachers had personal/family issues that they felt were more important than the job. I respect that, but as a business owner I want to deal with those situations as little as possible.

Your biggest advantage lies in the fact that there are now more part time positions available than there are full time ones. As these jobs are more or less all illegal, schools should love being able to make use of your visa status.
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SJD



Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks dangerousapple, that does indeed provide and interesting and useful presepctive on things.

So, let me ask you a hypothetical question. If two people came to your school with the same experience, the same appearance, the same personality......you get the picture, only one had a JFRV/APRC and the other needed you to sponsor him or her, who would you hire? And why?

I'm just curious.
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creztor



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you like being tied to an employer and their "bitch" for the duration of your contract in order to stay in Taiwan? Do you like the idea that you have a limited time frame to find new work if your employer happens not to rehire you for the following year? Do you like the idea that you NEED an employer to give you a minimum of 14 hours in order to even apply for an ARC in the first place? Do you like the idea that you MUST have an employer in order to stay in Taiwan with your wife? Sorry if I sound like I am being an arse, but there's really nothing here to even think about. The answer is blatantly obvious.
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

creztor wrote:
Do you like being tied to an employer and their "bitch" for the duration of your contract in order to stay in Taiwan? Do you like the idea that you have a limited time frame to find new work if your employer happens not to rehire you for the following year? Do you like the idea that you NEED an employer to give you a minimum of 14 hours in order to even apply for an ARC in the first place? Do you like the idea that you MUST have an employer in order to stay in Taiwan with your wife? Sorry if I sound like I am being an arse, but there's really nothing here to even think about. The answer is blatantly obvious.
I totally agree with you, creztor.

To the OP:
This is about FREEDOM. Are you willing to throw away all your FREEDOM so you can work at a few extra schools?

In theory, maybe a few extra schools will hire you if you're on an ordinary ARC (maybe, and that's debatable). However, you'll be throwing away:
- Any sort of stability (if fired, you'll have a week, or two weeks tops, to pack up all your things and leave the country)
- The ability to do (often lucrative) part-time or non-teaching work
- The ability to take time off from work and study or have fun for a few months
- The peace of mind that your employer won't treat you like a bitch because they know they have you by the balls

Seriously man, this is not even debatable. As I said before, and I will repeat this again:
Quote:
This question is almost like asking:
"Which should I live in? A house or a two-man tent? I think houses are better on the whole, but I've noticed that occasionally, in the newspaper, they talk about houses collapsing and killing their occupants, which is something I won't have to worry about if I live in a two-man tent. Any thoughts?"


I've lived in Asia for over ten years and have nothing even approaching the awesomeness of the JFRV. I'd kill to have a visa like that. Don't just throw away something so great so you can be hired by a few extra lousy buxiban...
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SJD



Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, I guess the case is clear then. I have one final question. I read of Forumosa that a guy had to leave Taiwan to get a visitors visa because the Taiwan government wouldn't process his JFRV with just a landing visa. If I understand the situation correctly it is because he is a Canadian citizen and therefore no longer needs to get a visitors visa to enter Taiwan for up to 90 days.

Has anybody encountered this situation? Since Canadians no longer need a visitors visa to enter Taiwan, does the government still require a visitors visa for people applying for a JFRV? Any information would be useful.
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