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What about holding ones passport but issuing an iqama ?
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear ram77,

"I don't think you 'got it' at all ! I have worked in Saudi Arabia for 10+ years with three different employers and never had, nor needed a multi-exit visa and NEVER had any issue with my employer handing back my passport when I needed to leave the country."
paranoid hysteria [/quote]

cmp45's experience mirrors mine. I worked in Saudi for nineteen years, had an iqama (my passport was held by my employer, the IPA, in Jeddah and in Riyadh), never had a multiple-exit visa, and never had any issue with my employer's handing back my passport whenever I needed/wanted to leave the country.

I think the difference is that cmp45 and I work/worked for good employers. But just because someone's experience is different from yours hardly justifies that rant you had.

Also, cmp45 and I are/were there on legitimate work visas, not on "business visas". Most, maybe all - I'm not sure - of the people who have/need multiple-exit visas are there on "business visas" (i.e. illegally) and must leave the country before that "visa" expires, go to Bahrain, and get another "visa." That necessitates fairly frequent exits from Saudi.

"Do your own research. These threads are just 'leads' to lead you in the right direction of researching for the job that's best for you."

Doing one's own research may not be all that easy (except for threads like these). Saudi's still a very closed country and not much useful info gets out. Where/How would you advise potential employees to conduct such research?

Regards,
John
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ram77



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point John. I encourage everyone to read the posts above about the consulate or type in US Consulate Dhahran into google and e-mail them. Also the US Embassy in Riyadh can be googled and they will tell you everything. Keep in mind, you can google the contact info for the Saudi Emnbassy in the US and call them or e-mail them, too.

Also, when getting hired, ask for 3 or more other teacher e-mails that work there... and have arrived recently. Recently, is important. It helps weed out the Uncle Tom's. = (

johnslat wrote:
Dear ram77,

"I don't think you 'got it' at all ! I have worked in Saudi Arabia for 10+ years with three different employers and never had, nor needed a multi-exit visa and NEVER had any issue with my employer handing back my passport when I needed to leave the country."
paranoid hysteria


cmp45's experience mirrors mine. I worked in Saudi for nineteen years, had an iqama (my passport was held by my employer, the IPA, in Jeddah and in Riyadh), never had a multiple-exit visa, and never had any issue with my employer's handing back my passport whenever I needed/wanted to leave the country.

I think the difference is that cmp45 and I work/worked for good employers. But just because someone's experience is different from yours hardly justifies that rant you had.

Also, cmp45 and I are/were there on legitimate work visas, not on "business visas". Most, maybe all - I'm not sure - of the people who have/need multiple-exit visas are there on "business visas" (i.e. illegally) and must leave the country before that "visa" expires, go to Bahrain, and get another "visa." That necessitates fairly frequent exits from Saudi.

"Do your own research. These threads are just 'leads' to lead you in the right direction of researching for the job that's best for you."

Doing one's own research may not be all that easy (except for threads like these). Saudi's still a very closed country and not much useful info gets out. Where/How would you advise potential employees to conduct such research?

Regards,
John[/quote]
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear ram77,

I have to say that based on my experience with US consulates and embassies, I would be surprised - actually that's too weak a word; make it flabbergasted - if anyone actually got any useful info from them.

But that's just based my my experience and that of other EFLers I've known over the years.

Regards,
John
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ram77



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I'm sorry for your experiences John and your friends, but I have lived all over Europe, Asia, Middle-East and if you want an answer, the embassy will answer you. An e-mail or a phone call and if you don't get an answer then insist. The Embassies are there for you. Now, if you want the mto b your lawyer, or act as the Minstry of Labor and all that, that's another story, but they have all the information and are willing to give it. Also, the embassy in the US of A will respond to e-mails, too. Ask them. Have your questions ready because they are always in a rush or sometimes rude, but they will answer your questions. If they don't call again. There are only three or four people working at the Embassies, so if you call or e-mail multiple times, they will answer you... IF, IF you have John's exprience.

For those of you reading, ignore the nay sayers and DO IT YOURSELF.

johnslat wrote:
Dear ram77,

I have to say that based on my experience with US consulates and embassies, I would be surprised - actually that's too weak a word; make it flabbergasted - if anyone actually got any useful info from them.

But that's just based my my experience and that of other EFLers I've known over the years.

Regards,
John
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear ram77,

I'm tempted to start a poll on this forum:

Do you think your embassy/consulate will help you with good, valid information about Saudi companies/employers?

(which would be a rather long question).

The reason I'm tempted is that I lived abroad as an EFLer for twenty-two years, and, in all that time I personally never got any kind of assistance from a US embassy/consulate (just the opposite, in fact). Moreover, I never met any other US citizen who did. In fact, if the subject ever came up, the unanimous opinion was that expecting them to help you just wasn't at all realistic - and this was/is especially the case in Saudi (and the Middle East in general.)

Regards,
John
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ram77



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what are you saying John? Get to it. Everyone should should ignore the Embassy, NOT EVEN TRY to seek out information about their Saudi Rights and/or non-existent rights and they should just blindly get on the plane? Are you serious? Poll or no poll, how hard is one or three e-mails or phone calls?

Why would you discourage anyone from seeking out valuable knowledge no matter how hard or difficult it may be?

Here ya' go people.

http://dhahran.usconsulate.gov/

I just made it that much easier. YOUR WELCOME! LOL If you need more information, then they will at least let you know where to go to get it.


johnslat wrote:
Dear ram77,

I'm tempted to start a poll on this forum:

Do you think your embassy/consulate will help you with good, valid information about Saudi companies/employers?

(which would be a rather long question).

The reason I'm tempted is that I lived abroad as an EFLer for twenty-two years, and, in all that time I personally never got any kind of assistance from a US embassy/consulate (just the opposite, in fact). Moreover, I never met any other US citizen who did. In fact, if the subject ever came up, the unanimous opinion was that expecting them to help you just wasn't at all realistic - and this was/is especially the case in Saudi (and the Middle East in general.)

Regards,
John
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck, potential employees. I wish you the best with the consulate / embassy.

I hope to be proven wrong. So, if anyone tries it, would you please post as to the outcome.

Thanks.

Regards,
John
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ram77 wrote:
So what are you saying John? Get to it. Everyone should should ignore the Embassy, NOT EVEN TRY to seek out information about their Saudi Rights and/or non-existent rights and they should just blindly get on the plane? Are you serious? Poll or no poll, how hard is one or three e-mails or phone calls?

Yes, he's serious and after my 16 years in the Middle East, I agree with him completely. What he is doing is helping you to avoid wasting your time and effort with an organization whose only reason for existence is to support US business and military interests.

We expat teachers are insignificant and irrelevant... and they normally make sure when you meet any of them that this is completely clear to you.

But hey... knock yourself out... and good luck!!

VS
(oh... and whatever you may learn from them or their websites? Always take with a grain of salt... it is mostly CYA stuff - usefulness and accuracy usually completely lacking)
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ellethom



Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Location: Wherever I May Roam

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks all for the lovely information, i will keep it all in mind . I appreciate that we all come from different experiences, and keeping the focus on information is important for those of us seeking answers to valid questions.
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had a very smooth and relatively enjoyable time in KSA. I guess I can say I have been one of the lucky few that found decent employers. I have had no need for the muti-exit visa...of course I only required a one time exit visa when leaving the country and returning after a holiday. Again, have to say never had a problem with any of my employers regarding them holding my passport while I had their Igama. This is just the way it works in KSA.

As for seeking the assistance of an embassy/consolate never had any need to do so with the exception of renewing my passport when it was about to expire while over seas. Or to apply for a visit visa to another country.
I also doubt they would be able to offer help to a troubled ESL teacher. But heh I guess if you are in a bad situation, it is worth a try...again good luck with getting their assistance.

Trouble is people such as ram77 set themselves up for major problems in KSA by signing up with dodgey outfits coming over on a business visa and / or because they lack proper credentials so they end up choosing a dodgey master ... dodgey employers tend to seek out the lesser qualified teachers as they are the only ones desperate enough to work for these low life cowboy outfits... Cool (no disrespect meant towards cowboys) Laughing


Last edited by cmp45 on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

double post again...friggin computer .... Embarassed
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ram77



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most foreigners seek the embassy's help after they have a problem, and when the embassy can't help them, become bitter. I guess, I was lucky. I was given as much information as I asked for. I was also very kind no matter what they told me. Maybe they had sympathy for me or whatever.

I say call but maybe everyone is right. You should just blindly go and experience the same sequence of events that everyone else experiences. ha ha It can't hurt to re-invent the wheel and then get angry that you're not the first to invent it. LOL Good luck.

veiledsentiments wrote:
ram77 wrote:
So what are you saying John? Get to it. Everyone should should ignore the Embassy, NOT EVEN TRY to seek out information about their Saudi Rights and/or non-existent rights and they should just blindly get on the plane? Are you serious? Poll or no poll, how hard is one or three e-mails or phone calls?

Yes, he's serious and after my 16 years in the Middle East, I agree with him completely. What he is doing is helping you to avoid wasting your time and effort with an organization whose only reason for existence is to support US business and military interests.

We expat teachers are insignificant and irrelevant... and they normally make sure when you meet any of them that this is completely clear to you.

But hey... knock yourself out... and good luck!!

VS
(oh... and whatever you may learn from them or their websites? Always take with a grain of salt... it is mostly CYA stuff - usefulness and accuracy usually completely lacking)
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