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Mexico City vs. Bogota
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CarolinaTHeels



Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Mexico City vs. Bogota Reply with quote

Ok people. Lets have a face off. Which is better pound for pound all things considered. Differences, pro's and con's ect for teaching ESL in those two cities?
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DebMer



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 211
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got my bag of popcorn, and am ready to watch/read the face-off! Very Happy
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EFLeducator



Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I have never been to Bogota, I worked for years in Mexico City and what I experienced there were low wages, students who had no respect for TEFLer's, classes cancelled every week, and no career path for a professional TEFLer.

I would love to hear how Bogota may be different. I am sure beautiful Latin America is full of professional opportunities for professional TEFLer's such as myself. I just did not find it in Mexico City.
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CarolinaTHeels



Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not sure career path and TEFLer belong in the same sentence! jaja

Maybe in the Middle East or Korea with a MA and DELTA....
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 858

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the biggest problem in ESL in Latin America is people who think that because they can speak English they can teach it. No training, no qualifications, no skill, but high sense of entitlement. A sure path to defeat. If you have a degree in Education, certainly, you can make in the $20,000 to $30,000 peso range, with all the benefits required by law. But, yeah, if all you are qualified for is a language school, you are likely to feel underpaid and underappreciated. I just wonder why it is that people think they can TEACH in Mexico with no training or qualifications, the same people wouldn't be likely to apply for a professional job in their home country that they weren't qualified for, so why is is OK in other countries?
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CarolinaTHeels



Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadBeagleBad wrote:
I think the biggest problem in ESL in Latin America is people who think that because they can speak English they can teach it. No training, no qualifications, no skill, but high sense of entitlement. A sure path to defeat. If you have a degree in Education, certainly, you can make in the $20,000 to $30,000 peso range, with all the benefits required by law. But, yeah, if all you are qualified for is a language school, you are likely to feel underpaid and underappreciated. I just wonder why it is that people think they can TEACH in Mexico with no training or qualifications, the same people wouldn't be likely to apply for a professional job in their home country that they weren't qualified for, so why is is OK in other countries?


this isnt just with LA. Asia is the same way. Pretty much ALL ESL is like this. You dont need ANY TRAINING or ESL QUALI's to teach esl in Korea. (a unrelated degree is not training)
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EFLeducator



Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadBeagleBad wrote:
I think the biggest problem in ESL in Latin America is people who think that because they can speak English they can teach it. No training, no qualifications, no skill, but high sense of entitlement. A sure path to defeat.


The above description in no way, shape, or form applies to me. I have 2 certificates in the teaching of English, a Bachelors from a private university in Dallas, Texas and in four months I will be finished with my MA in Education with a specialization in English Language Learners (ELL). I have incredible student evaluations from where I taught ESL to adults here in Texas for almost 4 years.

I also have great reference letters from many students I had while I was teaching in Mexico City and I had no sense of entitlement. So I have the training, the qualifications, the skills, and no sense of entitlement and yet I still was faced with low wages, disrespectful students, and a city that did not seem to care about English. I also know many Mexican TEFLer's who also have tons of training, qualifications, and yes, skills, yet faced the same thing...low wages, no respect, classes cancelled, and many other problems.

The theory that TEFLer's make little money in Mexico City because they have no training, qualifications, nor skills does not seem to be accurate because of the many Mexican TEFLer's I knew in Mexico City who faced the same problems as I did. And they, like me, had tons of training, skills, and qualifications.

Viva Bogota! Cool
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spanglish



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 584
Location: working on that

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown on the best university jobs in Mexico City from somebody in the know - hours, benefits, working conditions, pay - all that stuff. I have a pretty good handle on these numbers in Bogota (and have posted them many times in the Colombia forum).

As an aside - a few days ago I read in Portafolio Magazine (Colombia's publication for finance issues) that Bogota has the 3rd highest cost of living in Latin America, which makes it 40% more expensive than Mexico City and Buenos Aires.
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9403
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do university jobs pay well in Bogota/Colombia? In Mexico City, they tend to not pay nearly as well as private secondary and primary schools do. Unis here are generally per hour work and not salaried, meaning no benefits.

Quote:
The above description in no way, shape, or form applies to me. I have 2 certificates in the teaching of English, a Bachelors from a private university in Dallas, Texas and in four months I will be finished with my MA in Education with a specialization in English Language Learners (ELL). I have incredible student evaluations from where I taught ESL to adults here in Texas for almost 4 years.

I also have great reference letters from many students I had while I was teaching in Mexico City and I had no sense of entitlement. So I have the training, the qualifications, the skills, and no sense of entitlement


Love the new avatar...you can read the above in Bush voice and believe it as if he were saying it.

Spanglish, I remember you writing somewhere else not too long ago that $1500 a month was easy to make in Colombia...is that uni work or language school work?
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spanglish



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 584
Location: working on that

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Institute pay tends to be 1.5 - 2.5 million pesos/month, depending on the hours, so supplementing with a few private students, I suppose you could get up to $1,500 USD /month. That would be around 24 contact hours/week at various businesses around the city.

The better universities in Bogota are salaried and pay in the range of 2.5-4.5 million pesos/month. Some will only pay you for 10 or 11 months of the year and give you unpaid time off every year, so you have to keep that in mind. A lot of people I know work at 2 universities and supplement with high priced private classes. Doing that, you can make 6-8 million pesos/month 10 months or so of the year, but these folks tend to have been in the country over 10 years, have relevant masters degrees and are always working.
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MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1145
Location: 1748'N 9746'W

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outside of Mexico City, there are universities that offer full-time salaried jobs. They go from 12,000 to 20,000 Mexican pesos a month year round. Hourly rates at universities vary from 100 to 200 peso an hour. And you only get paid while in class, so not during vacation periods. I'm full time and required to be on campus 40 hour a week, which would put my hourly rate at under 100 pesos an hour, but I usually teach 15 hours a week which would put my hourly class rate at about 250 pesos an hour.
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spanglish



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 584
Location: working on that

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motherf - that sounds like second tier university pay in Colombia. It's tough to make comparisons, though given the differing cost of living.

At current exchange rate, 16,000 Mexican pesos is equivalent to 2.2 million Colombian pesos. In Bogota, that would almost certainly preclude living in your own apartment and you'd have to watch your money (or up that salary on privates) to be able to save up for a plane ticket to visit home once a year. To have my own (modest, 1 bedroom, but in an upper-class neighborhood) place in Bogota, I'd want to make at least 3.5 million/month, which translates to 25,000 Mexican pesos. Rent, utilities and internet would be 1 million pesos/month (7,100 Mexican pesos) for that modest, 1 bedroom place (I'm thinking in the neighborhoods of either La Macarena or Chapinero).

I like to occasionally buy quality and relatively 'exotic' food, which really ups my spending. For example, I just bought a small jar of nice strawberry jam - $4.70 USD. A very small loaf of multi-grain bread at the nice bakery down the street - $1.80. Banana bread - around four dollars.

What about the pay at top-tier Mexican universities? I thought Tec de Monterrey might pay in the 28,000 Mexican peso range. And, what about private class rates? Here in Bogota a 'backpackers' rate would work out to around $12.00 USD/hour, while top rates are in the $30.00-$70.00/hour range.
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9403
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tec de Monterrey in Mexico City offers about 15,000 to a first year teacher....I think it would take some time to get up to 28k though things may have changed since I last checked into their packages a few years ago.

Cost-of-living there sounds pretty close to what it is here...

Private class rates run between 150 and 500 pesos per hour, with the lower end being most common.
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MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1145
Location: 1748'N 9746'W

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cost of living in Mexico varies a lot.
In the town where I live the very nicest two bedroom apartments rent for around 3000 pesos. You can easily find something for a single person to live alone in for 2000 or less. Rent tends to be determinded by location of the place, not square footage, so on the edge of town you can rent a three bedroom house with a yard for about 1500 pesos. But then you pay more in transportation. I support a family of 5 working full time at a university.
We pay about 200 pesos in electricity every-other-month 50 pesos in water, a tank of gas lasts us 6 weeks and it cost about 200 pesos, our internet (which we recieve via antena) is 230 pesos a month.

You can make very good--but unstable money with private classes around here as there are few language institutes. I wouldn't give a private class for less than 400 an hour, but I don't have a lot of free time, so I would set my price very high. 150 and hour seems very reasonable to me. Some people do something like 150 for 1 on 1 classes, 200 if two students take the class together (so they each pay 100). 250 for three students and 300 for four students.
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spanglish



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 584
Location: working on that

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MotherF - In Bogota, I share a house with 1 other person. We pay about 10 times more for utilities and internet than you do. For electricity, about 8 times more. For water, 10 (sorry had read the water wrong) times more. For internet, 4 times more.

A top of the line, modern, 2 bedroom apartment in a 2nd tier Colombian city (500,000 population) would be around double what you quoted.


Last edited by spanglish on Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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