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My Rant Against Racial Discrimination
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phdinfunk



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taiwanese Buxiban owners are mostly a bunch of followers who don't know that there are better ways to do things than how "everybody does it."

It's like how they opened a Dominos DIRECTLY NEXT TO a pizza hut in this small town..... not on the other side of town, not someplace where they could build a different customer base, but literally, next to the ONLY OTHER PIZZA SHOP IN TOWN. It's not an isolated incident either. Someone has a "famous" tea shop, another one opens across the street.... etc.

I know at least one North American Buxiban owner who hired an ABC. He was sensible enough to only want someone who would do the job properly. He's up in greater Taipei area and has more students lined up than he can place in classes (interestingly, he is also very honest with parents about students' performance, etc).

Bottom line, what you're saying DOES happen... and it's stupid in a whole lot of ways.

Also, this isn't something a person can automatically sue for in America. Generally speaking, you can fire somebody, with no reason given, from pretty much any business. It would be pretty hard, unless you got internal memos or a whistle-blower or something, to pull off that lawsuit. Plus, have you got the money to take it to court against some company with more money than you have?

Ultimately, I like the points the guy above made about things you could do. Also, it's possible that you could find a better Buxiban. I also know a very famous Buxiban next to the science museum in Taichung hired a Taiwanese guy who claimed the whole time that he was an ABC. Finally he and his boyfriend left the country on more adventures, but he was good friends with our group, and worked at that position for a couple of years.....

Keep your eyes peeled and don't get discouraged. Look for Taiwanese who aren't idiotic sheep..... believe it or not, they exist, and in more massive droves than most forumites would have you believe.
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Coolguy123



Joined: 10 Apr 2013
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edit - edited my post to make it more relevant.

My question is - would I face difficulties finding work in Taiwan? I'm half-asian, and people usually can't tell my ethnicity. Sometimes people assume I'm "Hawaiian" or somesuch, being from Hawaii, but it often depends on the lighting, my mood/demeanor, which environment/country I'm in, etc. etc. Possibly being "Hawaiian" might provide some exotic appeal? Any ideas? Dressing/acting to appear more white when applying?

After doing more research I hear a lot of people complaining about it being more difficult being Asian-American and working in Asia, and people specifically saying that "looking taiwanese" would make it more difficult to get a job. I get a sense that this is more of an issue in Taiwan and at the buxibans than other places/schools, but without having been there, I don't know for sure. Any idea how my reception might be?
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JanelleL2



Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Sydney, NSW

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:38 am    Post subject: racial discrimination Reply with quote

Hello, I'm new to the forum but I saw this post and had to reply as I also am experiencing discrimination, but I have not even gotten past the first stage of hiring for ESL jobs in Taiwan!

I have been searching for an overseas job in Korea and Taiwan for 2 months with no success. I suspect racial discrimination because as soon as the schools or agencies ask for a photo and my passport copy, I never hear any reply back even with my request for feedback. One agency was finally honest and said it is harder to hire me because I am Asian. I might add here that I am a 5th generation Australian Born Chinese, I am young and single, and I have all the suitable qualifications so that is no excuse. (I am a qualified teacher, I have a permanent job as an ESL teacher with the DEC, Sydney Australia and a Masters of Arts TESOL).

I am just putting out this post to see if anyone knows any schools or agencies that are less discriminative in Taiwan to start? And if this occurs in all Asian countries? (I'm choosing Asia since it's close to Australia and I don't have much travel experiences where I am on my own). And if I was to go there, will I continue to experience prejudice in the workplace?

I just can't help feeling unattractive and taking it personal. I am even thinking, why am I bothering to take leave from a secure job in Sydney to go work overseas? And even why I bothered to complete my Masters when I can't even use it? I really need some feeback please...
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JanelleL2



Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Sydney, NSW

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Coolguy123"]Edit - edited my post to make it more relevant.

My question is - would I face difficulties finding work in Taiwan? I'm half-asian, and people usually can't tell my ethnicity. Sometimes people assume I'm "Hawaiian" or somesuch, being from Hawaii, but it often depends on the lighting, my mood/demeanor, which environment/country I'm in, etc. etc. Possibly being "Hawaiian" might provide some exotic appeal? Any ideas? Dressing/acting to appear more white when applying?

At least you're half Asian and can get away with being more 'white'. I'm Australian 'full' Chinese but I'm considering submitting false photos of a blue eyed blonde, what do you think their reactions will be when I turn up? How ridiculous, after being bought up to embrace multiculturalism, I am reverting back to 'white is best' way of thinking.
What did you end up doing?
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Coolguy123



Joined: 10 Apr 2013
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi JanelleL2,

Actually I'm not teaching yet, I still need to get my CELTA so I'm working on that soon.

That's pretty puzzling that you're having so many problems despite your resume. The people in previous posts were still able to find jobs eventually, but were only offered less money...

Perhaps there is something else going on? Maybe you're overqualified for the jobs your applying for?

When I was in Japan, there were lots of asian people teaching there. It didn't seem like that much of an issue, although I do know a Japanese-American guy who had trouble finding private students online (Japanese name, picture). He eventually found students some other way, once people realized he was American he didn't have problems.

I would recommend maybe trying a different approach, applying for other types of positions, etc. If you're only applying for entry-level jobs, and have a masters TESOL for instance, perhaps you should try applying for some of the better jobs available.

[quote="JanelleL2"]
Coolguy123 wrote:
Edit - edited my post to make it more relevant.

My question is - would I face difficulties finding work in Taiwan? I'm half-asian, and people usually can't tell my ethnicity. Sometimes people assume I'm "Hawaiian" or somesuch, being from Hawaii, but it often depends on the lighting, my mood/demeanor, which environment/country I'm in, etc. etc. Possibly being "Hawaiian" might provide some exotic appeal? Any ideas? Dressing/acting to appear more white when applying?

At least you're half Asian and can get away with being more 'white'. I'm Australian 'full' Chinese but I'm considering submitting false photos of a blue eyed blonde, what do you think their reactions will be when I turn up? How ridiculous, after being bought up to embrace multiculturalism, I am reverting back to 'white is best' way of thinking.
What did you end up doing?
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JanelleL2



Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Sydney, NSW

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:16 am    Post subject: THANKS for the encouragement! Reply with quote

Thanks Coolguy.
I just reread the older posts and realised I am probably going to get a lot of messages telling me to stop complaining and suck up the harsh reality, so it's nice the first reply is your positive one Smile
Good luck with your CELTA, I heard it's a good course.
Oh and I think I'm having difficulty because I'm applying from home (Sydney) rather than being in Taiwan.
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creztor



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why call yourself fifth generation ABC? I am not trying to offend you, but I believe it's stuff like this that keeps the racial thing going. You are Australian, plain and simple. Moving on... The kind of discrimination you are experiencing is present in EFL in any Asian country and also other regions (such as the Middle East). Also, your biggest problem is that you are not actually in Taiwan. I wouldn't leave Australia to teach EFL, unless you wanted to do it for other reasons besides the actual EFL part. But that's just me. Best of luck.
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Ferfichkin



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh and I think I'm having difficulty because I'm applying from home (Sydney) rather than being in Taiwan.


I think this is half your problem right here. I can't comment on Korea, but it can be tough to get a job in Taiwan from overseas.

Quote:
I am probably going to get a lot of messages telling me to stop complaining and suck up the harsh reality.


I'm not going to tell you to suck it up or to stop complaining, but I think there is a harsh reality that things are harder for people with an Asian background. I still think you can find work; I've known a ton of foreign born Asian people teaching in Taiwan, and if they can do it so can you, right? But you'll have to be in Taiwan for the job search. I honestly doubt you'll find anything applying from overseas.

As an aside, I don't think it's all just a case of racism or small-mindedness on the part of Taiwanese. Taiwan is a very homogeneous country and many Taiwanese people have little opportunity to interact with people who are not of Asian decent. I've had adult students tell me that I am the first white person they have ever spoken to. I think for many people in Taiwan language classes, both for children and adults, are an opportunity not only to learn and practice English, but also to get a chance to interact with someone who is not of Asian decent.

Anyhow, that's my two cents. Good luck!
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Coolguy123



Joined: 10 Apr 2013
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still, I find it hard to believe that it's that extreme. If someone is from a foreign country they are going to be totally different, act different, speak different, have different values, etc etc,. I've never been to taiwan so I can't really say, but I know that in Japan someone of Japanese descent would stick out like a sore thumb, I mean they even look different and act way different.

I mean it's not like there were hoards of white people there...it was actually pretty diverse. If anything, discrimination based on nationality was doled out pretty equally regardless of race or appearance.

Then again, what do I know. AFAIK though, there's tons of Korean-Americans teaching in Korea, and I've heard vague rumours that being asian might hurt your chances, but I haven't actually heard of people experiencing THAT much difficulty.
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Ferfichkin



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Still, I find it hard to believe that it's that extreme. If someone is from a foreign country they are going to be totally different, act different, speak different, have different values, etc etc,. I've never been to taiwan so I can't really say, but I know that in Japan someone of Japanese descent would stick out like a sore thumb, I mean they even look different and act way different.


I agree with you. You can often tell an ABC or CBC just from the way they look, and it's certainly true that if they were born in the west they would be more western than they would be Asian. Nevertheless, they still look Asian; a different kind of Asian maybe, but Asian nonetheless. And as I said before, many Taiwanese people enjoy language classes in part because it gives them an opportunity to interact with someone who is not of Asian descent. I agree that it's unfortunate in many ways, but...there it is.

Quote:
I mean it's not like there were hoards of white people there...it was actually pretty diverse. If anything, discrimination based on nationality was doled out pretty equally regardless of race or appearance.


Do you mean generally or in terms of employment? In terms of employment this is 100% not accurate in relation to Taiwan. White people from western countries experience much less discrimination than Asian people from western countries when it comes to employment in EFL.

Quote:
Then again, what do I know. AFAIK though, there's tons of Korean-Americans teaching in Korea, and I've heard vague rumours that being asian might hurt your chances, but I haven't actually heard of people experiencing THAT much difficulty.


Korea is a different situation. I've never lived there, so I don't know much about it, but what I do know is that there are a lot more jobs available in Korea than in Taiwan. And if they have a greater demand for teachers they will probably have to be less picky about their supply. I'm not sure though. Like I said, I've never lived there.
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MadRiley



Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Taiwanese are also racist against non-American English speakers. Many schools aren't interested unless you are North American. This also makes no rhyme or reason.
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londone7



Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, stumbled into this thread..

I dont think its specific to China/Taiwan but is much broader across the ESL world.. I know this is the No.1 reason I am not getting responses. I have a BA, Tesol, Celta, 3 yrs exp, but am of 'visibly ethnic' origin.

Recruiters based in UK/Can/USA are also playing this game who never respond to my application.

Like some commenters said, its more a business decision as parents/students want the 'total experience' and to be able to brag to their friends.. but at the same time, dont these folks know America has had a Black President since 2008!!?
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Coolguy123



Joined: 10 Apr 2013
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK so I'm in Taiwan and I'm getting a feel for the hiring preferences here.

It does seem like a lot of schools won't hire ABCs, unfortunately because they are afraid that parents will question their English speaking ability. It does seem like a lot of schools will hire ABCs, especially the more serious ones, but you do you need the qualifications.

I haven't met many African-Americans but I do know a black girl who is teaching here and seemed to find a job fairly easily, but that's only one example so it's hard to tell.

If you're young and good-looking, it does seem to help somewhat.

Schools don't seem to like hiring fat people. This is kinda sad but if you are overweight, it seems like across the board schools won't want to hire you and finding a job will be very difficult regardless of your qualifications or ethnicity/country of origin.

If you are from a non-english native speaking country, there does also seem to be extreme difficulty supposedly because of visa requirements, but I think it's also because of lack of confidence in speaking ability, even regardless of qualifications. If you're asian and from spain, or something, you might just forget about finding a job or it might take you many many months to do so.

There may be a slight preference for male teachers, but I can't really be sure. If there is, though, I don't think it's that big of a preference.

If your non-chinese and asian, and from an English speaking country, it doesn't seem as much of an issue as being ABC, but then again it's hard to tell because there are almost no-asian americans here except for ABCS. The vast majority of foreigners seem to be caucasian.

So there you go. I'm half-asian (not chinese) and I haven't seemed to have any issues, getting hired from chain schools and such, and I wanted to find a job at a better school but it seems that I might need more qualifications. Or maybe those schools don't want to hire me because I look part asian. Who knows. But I'm not sure I'm interested in staying here, especially if I can't find one of the better jobs over entry level.

But there do seem to be a lot of people here especially looking for jobs with the better, non-chain schools, with better curriculums so there's a lot of competition for those jobs because of course they are much more interesting.

Getting a job with a chain school though, does not seem that difficult if you're starting out or have a year experience teaching in a different country, or have mediocre demos.
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rebelsatellite



Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firearcher wrote:
I view Asians teaching English or even blacks in much the same way.


Rolling Eyes
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braindead



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 23
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have a question:

how do they know you're an American or Australian Born Chinese? do they ask you? do you volunteer that information? i feel like, if someone asked me my ethnicity, i'm going to give them the American answer: 25% this, 20% this, 20% that, 10% this, 5% that....
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