Job Discussion Forums

[economicist]

I am looking to try ESL teaching abroad, and Taiwan looks like one of the better places for me to get my feet wet according to what I've seen here on the board. The pay seems reasonable, I have a friend from college who is a Taiwanese national, and traveling there from the US is easier than a lot of other countries in Asia. I have a BA and an MA in Economics from state universities, and have over a year working as a teaching assistant in that subject along with about 5 years of tutoring.

I'm very interested in the CELTA course, knowing that it's not an absolute necessity for all countries. However, with the little bit of teaching experience I have I know that having the best training will likely help me do my job better and probably enjoy it more.

I've been looking online for CELTA courses in Taiwan and have not found any. The reason I'd rather not pursue it here in town is that the local CELTA affiliate costs hundreds of dollars more than in the other Asian countries where I've looked (Vietnam, China, Thailand). Does this mean that Taiwan may not be the best choice for me to start in?

Anyway, thanks to all of you who are active on this forum.

[Ali_The_Greatest]

Hey man,

They used to run CELTA courses in Taiwan, but Chinese people are used to being allowed to cheat (seriously).
There were too many failures, because Cambridge have good integrity in the sense that if you are failing, they won't turn a blind eye because your uncle is the police chief.

If you are in Asia, the best bet in terms of price is Thailand. The course price is competitive, and your accommodation and food costs are very low provided you are sensible.

I would recommend ECC, that's where I did mine.

Good luck bro!

[economicist]

Thanks for your reply! I had actually assumed from everyone's silence that the answer to my question was an implicit "Yes" and that Taiwan may not be the right place for me right now. I'm looking more closely at Vietnam and Thailand for the time being.

[doomer]

AFAIK, CELTA is not a requirement in any major Asian TEFL market: China, SK, Japan, TW, Thailand.

TW has no TEFL requirements whatsoever: only a 4yr BA (or 2yr AA + TEFL cert).

And AFAIK, there has never been a CELTA course in TW - at least not for the last 15 yrs I've been here. CELTA is more expensive globally because Cambridge gets a commission cut for each CELTA course/center. So generally, it makes more economic sense to hold CELTA courses in cheaper countries.

Japan & SK offer CELTA because they have larger populations & markets: JA=127M, SK=50M, TW=22M. AFAIK, TW's english levels are comparable to China, SK, & Japan.

So if you want a CELTA, better to get it cheaper in VN, TH, or CN.

Note that all major Asian TEFL markets do poorly on the IELTS - CELTA centers/requirements or not. The ones that do better (Philippines, Singapore, Malaysia, etc) have a history of Anglophone-colonization or English as an official language.

Aside from these factors, the students' native language is the main factor in determining how well they acquire English. (This is why European learners do better; their languages are more closely related to English.) CELTA has little to do with it, imo.

GL in whatever you decide!

[spiral78]

[Sashadroogie]

Hungarians are pretty good at learning English. I have had many CPE A grades from there in my staff rooms. Yet, Hungarian doesn't really have much in common with English, or any other Indo-European languages. So relative proximity to English is but one factor of many. I don't think it is true to say it is even the main factor determining how well anyone acquires a language. If that were true, everyone in the UK could pick up Dutch or Swedish with ease. Yet they don't, even when immersed in those nearby countries for a few years.

I would lean more to general education and academic skills as being a more important factor. That and the mysterious natural ability some people seem to be blessed with.

[doomer]

Spiral:

The fact that Europeans are multi-lingual (usually in an English-related language), proves my point. Hypothetically, if a Chinese learner grew up multilingual in Chinese & German, they'd have far fewer problems learning English than a Chinese learner who hadn't.

Sasha:

Like English, Hungarian uses the Latin alphabet, and has tenses, verb conjugations, noun cognates, & definite/indefinite articles... none of which Chinese grammar has. So for an English (or Hungarian, probably) speaker, Chinese grammar is far simpler & easier to master than for a Chinese learner to master English or Hungarian grammar (a movement from simple to complex).

Americans & UK folks both speak the world's lingua franca, so there's far less motivation & necessity for us to learn other languages... whether we're immersed in the Netherlands, Sweden or Taiwan, where more people speak English, want to practice their English, and we suffer zero discrimination for not speaking the local language. You seem to forget that we're welcome in those countries & paid to be there precisely because we speak English. The same is NOT true for an immigrant in a NES country.

Obviously, individual desire & circumstances play a role in any human endeavor, but for EFL, one's own native L1 is primary... and its nature should play a more central, student-centered role in determining & developing suitable TEFL methodologies.

If an alien landed on Earth, how different their native language is from English will obviously play the largest role in determining how quickly they can learn English. Not a teacher's CELTA skills.

[Sashadroogie]

Have you really worked in the Netherlands or Sweden?

[doomer]

Worked, nope. Have you? The TEFL market in those 2 countries is likely quite small & highly competitive.

But I've travelled to 15 different countries in Europe, including the Netherlands & Sweden, and many people there are proficient English speakers, enjoy using their English, & don't discriminate against NES - true for most northern Euro countries. You can definitely get around just speaking English, no problem.

Even without personal experience, this situation is easily googled for travel preparations. Also look at the English Proficiency Index, which ranks Sweden #1, and the Netherlands #3. Quite interesting. The criticisms seem valid, but there don't seem to be other studies.

Here's a random Swedish-based article on Sweden's #1 ranking.

[Sashadroogie]

I was more amused at your assertion that I "seem to forget that we're welcome in those countries & paid to be there precisely because we speak English." This is an absurd statement, clearly not based on working in either of those aforementioned countries, holiday-making not withstanding.

[doomer]

[Sashadroogie]

Now that is a cracking post! Will test the powers of analysis of even the most experienced cryptographer.