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What do you look for in a BA or MA degree program?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a general comment...

A friend has been bemoaning the idea of investing two years of her life and money getting a master's degree. I responded that two years will come and go anyway, so best to make the most of her time by finally accomplishing her educational goals. Otherwise, she'll be reflecting on what coulda, shoulda been.

Given the continuing rise in tuition costs, the longer you put off starting your BA or MA program, the more expensive it's likely to be. If getting a degree is a costly and daunting prospect, then consider stretching your studies out over a more financially manageable period of time. There's usually no hard rule that states a degree program has to be completed within a specific time frame. (Okay, 10 years to do a BA is a bit much.) For example, it took me 5 years to complete my undergrad degree because I enrolled in classes as I could afford them, often reducing my course load to part time. Granted, this was when university costs were reasonable, but I was able to keep my student loans to a minimum and get them quickly paid off.
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VinnyG.



Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Education where a researcher looked at a large number of Americans who went back and got a higher degree late in their career (I don't remember if it was 45+ or what). It is now so expensive to get a masters or doctorate, only a very small percentage gain a large enough financial benefit to offset the costs. In fact many people ended up with debts that extended into retirement. One negative aspect of American student loans is that if you declare bankruptcy, it does not negate the loan and you are still responsible for the debt. So even up to death you can still owe money.

I was looking at the possibility of going for a masters, but being 50 I realized the numbers don't add up. If I do anything, it will probably be a CELTA. That or perhaps I'll go into the kitchen and make a sandwich.
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Shroob



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In two months I'm starting an MA in Applied Linguistics with TESOL. Before that I'm teaching at a pre-sessional university course lasting 6 weeks. If I do the same course next year, the total pay of both courses will more than offset the of the MA course. Fingers crossed and I complete the MA and pass everything, next year I will qualify for an even better salary.

So I'm not sure where the people who say the advantage of having a master's won't cover the investment. This is in the U.K. though, but even for international students (or distance learning) the cost will payoff.

I'm only 24, so have plenty of time to reap the rewards (hopefully Laughing ), but I'd still do this if I was 30, 40 or 50. I plan to have retired before 60!
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DebMer



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 232
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VinnyG. wrote:
There was a recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Education where a researcher looked at a large number of Americans who went back and got a higher degree late in their career (I don't remember if it was 45+ or what). It is now so expensive to get a masters or doctorate, only a very small percentage gain a large enough financial benefit to offset the costs. In fact many people ended up with debts that extended into retirement. One negative aspect of American student loans is that if you declare bankruptcy, it does not negate the loan and you are still responsible for the debt. So even up to death you can still owe money.

I was looking at the possibility of going for a masters, but being 50 I realized the numbers don't add up. If I do anything, it will probably be a CELTA. That or perhaps I'll go into the kitchen and make a sandwich.


I'm delighted with everything I've read about Western Governors University and will be studying for an MA through them starting in the fall. 100% online, regionally, federally and NCATE accredited, excellent reputation and reviews, $2000 USD per 6-month semester for any number of units completed.

Degrees and programs offered can be found here: http://www.wgu.edu/degrees_and_programs
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VinnyG. wrote:
It is now so expensive to get a masters or doctorate, only a very small percentage gain a large enough financial benefit to offset the costs.

In my opinion, the biggest cost is time, not in actual money outlaid. In the US at least, there are many universities that offer on-campus MA TESOL programs and that also have intensive ESL programs in which MA TESOL students can teach. Usually, such teaching assistantships offer a full or partial tuition waiver, a stipend (usually just barely enough for rent, utilities, food, etc.), and university EAP teaching experience. Personally, for my MA, I paid $0 in tuition, received a stipend that was enough to cover my basic living expenses, and ended up not having to take any student loans at all.

Of course, there is the intangible loss of time doing the MA (2 years), and the potential income during that time.

You also mentioned doctorates. Anyone who pays for a doctorate in the US is a sucker (except for MD, JD, and some EdDs). PhDs are almost always given a full tuition waiver and higher stipend (usually in exchange for teaching or research work).
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VinnyG.



Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say in my case I was looking at various options including keeping my job and trying to do it online. I met with a department head at one university to discuss the posibilities. He was blunt saying that things like assistantships and other financial opportunities tend to be awarded to younger people who will have longer to establish a career in the profession. He also said that faculty like younger assistants for their energy and their ability to be mentored. Whether or not any of this is age discrimination is beside the point as I was looking for a degree and not a fight.

The article was in the Apr. 19, 2012 issue of Chronicle of Higher Education, page A10, "I Fully Expect To Die with This Debt."
Here is a preview page. If you have a subscription, you can log in and read the whole thing.
http://chronicle.texterity.com/chronicle/20130419a?pg=11#pg11

Now where is that sandwich I made?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That definitely wasn't a baloney sandwich, VinnyG! Laughing

You didn't mention where you'd like to teach---your teaching interests.
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VinnyG.



Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still surveying the state of sandwich making around the world before I make up my mind. There is much more to the world than baloney sandwiches.

V
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Bumping this thread since the subject of academic options keeps surfacing.)

Regardless of your TEFL experience...

If you're looking to get a university/college degree or are presently in a degree program or have completed your degree, which of the following factors of the program and choice of school are/were important to you and why:

-- "Fancy Name" University for prestige, recognition in the TESOL community and with employers
-- Specific course content (coursework)
-- Degree title or program of study (e.g., Applied Linguistics vs. Education vs. English Literature vs. ...)
-- Non-TEFL related field that fits my interests or future career goals
-- None; I just need/needed a degree, any degree
-- Convenience (location or mode of delivery)
-- Cost
-- Other

If you're looking into bachelors or masters degree programs, what are your reasons for doing so?
If you're currently completing your studies or have already obtained a degree, what regrets, if any, do you have about your academic choice(s)? On the other hand, what positive impact has it made?


Last edited by nomad soul on Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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timothypfox



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in 1997, I was back at university to do a 2nd BA. My first BA was in Dance, and I was working really hard doing additional dance studies after I graduated at conservatory in Quebec City. Perhaps I could have made it as a dancer after graduating there, but after a year of conservatory study I crashed and burned. I had no idea what I was going to do with a BA in Dance. So, returned to university to do an only slightly less marketable BA in Anthropology.

After graduating for the second time (or at least thinking I graduated), I had no idea what work was out there. I narrowed it down to doing a Master's Degree in Dance Ethnology or teaching in Japan. I decided to teach in Japan. When I went to get my transcript for my BA in Anthropology, I was told I was 1 course short. I panicked a little and thought I had no chance of going to Japan. The GEOS Corporation hired me with a completed BA in Dance, and I finished my last course for my BA in Anthropology by correspondence.

I now have no regrets telling people that my awesome BA in Dance was my ticket to an ESL teaching career which I have done ever since!
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AngelineFerrer



Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am looking for a university with good alumni association.
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coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Former careers adviser's priorities:

your particular interest, unrelated to TEFL (you're in there for years - also if it doesn't suit your personality, then any related jobs won't either - there may be life outside TEFL after all)

specific course content (similar reasons)

reputation of the department before reputation of university - in terms of ratings, your dept could be the one that boosts the institution in the rankings, or drags it down.

reputation of the university

cost (if you have to pay up front, this should move up the rankings, perhaps to number 2 or 3 - course content still most important imo)

degree title - these are often intended to attract students rather than making a difference (but there is a difference between Applied Linguistics and many other courses - in Russian universities, for example, AL is often insisted on as the only qualification for foreigners who want to teach there)

convenience - although this may link in with cost (remember: the cost to you is not just paying fees, but keeping yourself in food and under a roof)


-- "Fancy Name" University for prestige, recognition in the TESOL community and with employers
-- Specific course content (coursework)
-- Degree title or program of study (e.g., Applied Linguistics vs. Education vs. English Literature vs. ...)
-- Non-TEFL related field that fits my interests or future career goals
-- None; I just need/needed a degree, any degree
-- Convenience (location or mode of delivery)
-- Cost
-- Other
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been discussions in other forums debating employers' preference for an MA in TESOL holder versus a teacher with an MA in Applied Linguistics. I teach in the finicky, high-paying Middle East and have colleagues with a variety of related degrees. It's not an issue especially if those qualifications included supervised teaching practice whether via CELTA, SIT TESOL, generic TEFL cert... or within their degree program.
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
There have been discussions in other forums debating employers' preference for an MA in TESOL holder versus a teacher with an MA in Applied Linguistics.
I can't find it right now, but I remember a recent thread in which someone stated the opposite (if I remember correctly) -- a preference for an MA AppLing over someone with an MA in TESOL. I also remember someone on here once distinguishing between an MA and an MS (if I remember correctly, they were saying that an MA is more about how something is used, whereas an MS is more the study of the thing itself, or something like that).

My personal experience (which I also relayed on the above-mentioned threads) is that it's not the name of the degree that matters but rather the content, and how that content fits into what the employer needs. It doesn't matter if it is an MA TESOL, MA Ed (TESOL), M.Ed. TESOL, MS TESOL, MA AppLing, or MS AppLing -- they are all seen as relevant, and the specific coursework, specializations, licensure, and/or practicum experiences during the degree, along with your own teaching experiences, are what are important.

If others have different experiences, however, I'd be thankful if they could share.
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coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RTM: I think you will find that it is universities which require Applied Linguistics (certainly in Russia, can't speak for other countries).
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