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Is an EdD worth it?

 
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Ragmgar



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:38 pm    Post subject: Is an EdD worth it? Reply with quote

Hello everyone, I have finished my MA in TESOL recently and plan on working on getting postgraduate experience by continuing to work abroad. I will likely have the option to work towards a EdD through a job, and it would only cost $6000 or so as they subsidize it. It will take three years and my ultimate goal is to get enough experience/credentials to work for a community college in the states, does anyone have any input, suggestions or warnings? Thanks!
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11247
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two of my master's degrees (including my MA in Teaching) were employer subsidized via tuition reimbursement, so if you have a similar opportunity and want to pursue further education, then go for it.

However, it doesn't appear your portion, $6000, is the issue, nor do you mention your specific concerns. Whatever university program you choose, keep in mind you'll have to write a personal statement on why you want to pursue an EdD (i.e., your specific interest/area of focus, career goals, what that particular EdD major/focus would add to your professional development, how you plan to apply your studies, etc.). That self-reflection should answer some of the questions you may have about pursuing doctoral studies.

BTW, a few of my instructors in my MAT degree program were EdD holders. It's a good option if you're considering work in higher ed in the US. But definitely check out the following to see if an EdD is the best option for your long-term career goals:
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Ragmgar



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: why I'm considering the EdD Reply with quote

Honestly my plan would be to teach ESL courses at the university level and possibly work in a teacher training program for ESL in the states. I've found that a lot of schools require at least a doctorate to do any work outside of an Adjunct so that is one big motivator. I would likely pursue my EdD in Higher Education and Adult learning, and since I need postgraduate experience working with adults I thought that 3-4 years working for a school abroad and getting the doctorate would be useful. The school is Walden, I've heard mixed reviews but again it would be extremely cheap through this program so that is what has me thinking about it.
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: why I'm considering the EdD Reply with quote

An EdD from Walden U or any other for-profit university will not help you get a full-time job in higher education in the US. Also, a doctorate also won't help you get a full-time position teaching ESL at a college/university in the US (e.g., in an intensive English program). For such jobs, you generally need a related MA (TESOL/Applied Linguistics) and experience teaching university students abroad and/or in US (preferably both). Specialties in areas such as assessment or educational technology are helpful.

To teach in a teacher education program at a university, you'll generally need to have a PhD or EdD (from an accredited, non-profit institution). For this type of job, I'd stay away from any online program. For teaching in a program that prepares K-12 teachers, you'll also usually need state teacher licensure and experience teaching in public schools.

You may want to browse full-time ESL job postings, such as those on HigherEdJobs.
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Ragmgar



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I do have the Masters degree in TESOL and university teaching experience from China, and I will be focusing on gaining a few more years experience teaching adults while abroad no matter what. I wasn't aware of the stigma from for profit universities, and I guess I naively thought that an EdD would just allow me to fill the doctoral requirements to teach for a four year universities IEP. Definitely something to think about, I just finished the Masters degree, maybe I should just focus on the experience and maybe go out and live life a little! Smile
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: US

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't ever heard of "doctoral requirements to teach for a four year [university's] IEP." Sometimes, they'll state that a doctoral degree is 'preferred' for an IEP position, but I think you'll get better results by having more relevant experience, rather than by having a doctorate. And, ads for most IEP positions won't even say that a doctorate is preferred.

So, yes, I'd say go out, live a bit, and get some experience first.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11247
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ragmgar wrote:
Well I do have the Masters degree in TESOL and university teaching experience from China, and I will be focusing on gaining a few more years experience teaching adults while abroad no matter what. I wasn't aware of the stigma from for profit universities, and I guess I naively thought that an EdD would just allow me to fill the doctoral requirements to teach for a four year universities IEP. Definitely something to think about, I just finished the Masters degree, maybe I should just focus on the experience and maybe go out and live life a little! Smile

I agree with rtm. I've also never seen the requirement of a doctorate to teach in an IEP; generally, most teachers are MA TESOL holders with experience in the US and abroad. Don't rely on what you assume; do your research thoroughly on prospective university degree programs and what's required to teach in x job.

Be aware that China experience alone won't cut it. US university IEPs focus on teaching academic English to help students get their reading, writing, speaking, and listening skills up to the level needed for entrance into the university for academic studies.

Lastly, snagging a position in an IEP isn't that easy given the number of applicants these opportunities attract. Continue to build your post-MA experience but also focus on the potential for professional development at your places of employment.
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: why I'm considering the EdD Reply with quote

rtm wrote:
An EdD from Walden U or any other for-profit university will not help you get a full-time job in higher education in the US. Also, a doctorate also won't help you get a full-time position teaching ESL at a college/university in the US (e.g., in an intensive English program). For such jobs, you generally need a related MA (TESOL/Applied Linguistics) and experience teaching university students abroad and/or in US (preferably both). Specialties in areas such as assessment or educational technology are helpful.
. . . .

You may want to browse full-time ESL job postings, such as those on HigherEdJobs.


Excellent advice from rtm. While your experience in China will tick the "experience abroad" box, you should next be looking for positions that offer the opportunity to teach academic English. Most IEP positions go to candidates with both experience working abroad, and US ESL experience with this age group. Again, experience teaching academic English will be a big plus.

A doctorate from Walden will not help you land an ESL classroom job in an IEP in the US. In fact, if your MA is also from Walden, or another for-profit school, you will simply not be competitive.

.
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my opinion, and it is based solely upon what I have read and observed during my time in and out of school while I wasn't in China:

Almost no college education outside of Science, Tecnology, Engineering and Math (STEM) degree will increase your odds of getting the job of your choice within your expertise.

TESOL? Take a look at what's happening in the world. The English speaking northern hemisphere are trying very hard to stem the tide of immigration. That may be a heads-up for you to re-think your career path. (This probably excludes African countries whose official language is English).

In the colleges and universities with which I am familiar, a Ph.D isn't required to teach. If you can break through the insanely competitive politics of academia and actually land a job, the best you can hope for is a three-year renewable contract that at any time (often with little more than three months notice) will become nonrenewable. (Some MA lecturers actually have permanent status, but that's something that's reserved for people with very well-hidden talents).

Having a Ph.D will NOT guarantee you a job at a university. If you DO land a job at a university as a Ph.D it is very likely that you will actually be doomed to the Mail Office of Life teaching freshman writing as an adjunct instructor.

Though the following Forbes Magazine article is directed toward parents, the message to the aspiring post graduate candidate is pretty clear:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/noodleeducation/2015/05/28/more-than-half-of-college-faculty-are-adjuncts-should-you-care/#473fc3b51d9b

Another article from NBC News paints an even grimmer picture for the Ph.D and other post graduate degree holders:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/class-divide-campus-adjunct-faculty-fight-poverty-wages-n10851

At my alma mater, everyone (except the graduate faculty and the department chair) in the department in which I studied is adjunct (with the exception of two MA lecturers who possess secret talents and therefore have permanent status). This is twelve out of forty+ instructors.

If you want to teach abroad forever, go for it. Otherwise, go to a trade school before it's too late.
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jpvanderwerf2001



Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run an on-campus, college-run IEP department in NYC.
For instructors in my program (and most IEPs), an MA TESOL (or similar) is fine; that plus verifiable teaching experience (EFL or ESL) are the standard.
An EdD is a fine qualification, but certainly not a requirement for most IEP instructors.
That being said, if you could envision yourself moving into higher ed administration one day, then an EdD could prove very valuable indeed. As long as the qualification is *regionally accredited* then whether it's for- or non-profit should not make too much difference (obviously, if you're talking Harvard vs. Walden, then, yeah, I guess it could make a difference).
Note that there are competitively priced, regionally accredited, non-profit EdD/PhD programs out there. In fact, they are often less expensive than the for-profit institutions.
However, if Walden is the only option for you at $6K -- and higher ed administration is in your career plans at all -- I'd definitely do it.
If you plan to stay as an instructor at the community college level for the remainder of your career, then an EdD might not be necessary.
Best of luck.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11247
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the US, there's also an Ed.S., which is a specialized professional degree that's above a master's but below a doctorate.

Quote:
These are highly specialized degrees meant for professionals who require advanced proficiency in a field such as educational psychology, leadership or special education, but who do not have the time or desire to complete a dissertation. A minimum of 60 graduate-level credits are required. Generally people have earned a master's degree before applying to an education specialist program, although some programs count the master's degree toward the education specialist requirements.

Source: What Is an Education Specialist Degree?
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