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Money is not everything . . .
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: lol Reply with quote

The lifestyle in North Korea is probably much better!! Smile
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EricCC



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Money is not everything . . . Reply with quote

Dominic-Pax wrote:
EricCC wrote:
Money is not everything . . . but . . .

I am looking to come to the Middle East in the summer of 2013. My MA in TEEL will be complete by that time and I will have been working in English Education for over 8 years (including two years of univeristy in Korea).

In all honesty . . . I'm in over my head with student loans and mortgage payments back home. I've had a few contacts over the years with people working in the kingdom who were making really nice incomes. However, I've lost touch with them.

Anyone know of good companies or organizations to apply to? I hope to make 4K USD a month, have housing paid, and work with students who take some ownership over their learning. I come to work ready to teach and am more than willing to adjust to any new company / organization (I'm teachable despite having "experience").

Thanks in advance for any help you offer.

Eric


I am currently in the KSA. I spent several years teaching at universities in South Korea. You will make more money here, but the learners in South Korea are amazingly better. Ownership and learning do not collocate with Saudi Arabian students. Please knock that out of your head right away.

I recommend trying to get in to a university that requires an MA -- no recruiters or contract companies.

Do not get your hopes up too high with Saudi Arabia. In the end, the lifestyle in South Korea is much better.



How much more money are we talking?

Thanks
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CamTam



Joined: 05 Jan 2012
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends if you work for the oil industry or the government universities. Most recruits, these days, end up in the Preparatory Year Program through a recruiter. If that is the case, the average salary is about 3200 US per month with accommodations and transportation already included. If you work for the oil companies, the chances are good, you would make about double that. Your target of 4000 US per month is not entirely unreasonable, but these days, teachers in Saudi are making less than those who came here in previous years.
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EricCC



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CamTam wrote:
It depends if you work for the oil industry or the government universities. Most recruits, these days, end up in the Preparatory Year Program through a recruiter. If that is the case, the average salary is about 3200 US per month with accommodations and transportation already included. If you work for the oil companies, the chances are good, you would make about double that. Your target of 4000 US per month is not entirely unreasonable, but these days, teachers in Saudi are making less than those who came here in previous years.






Double 3200 US?
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ultraman111



Joined: 17 Sep 2011
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep....

I am awaiting clearance for a job ......

Double is about right.....cheap accomodation....secure compound and a flight home every year worked.


Last edited by ultraman111 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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EricCC



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ultraman111 wrote:
Yep....

I am awaiting clearance for a job at aramco.....not on US payroll though.

Double is about right.....cheap accomodation....secure compound and a flight home every year with 38 callender days off.



Sounds good. Could you tell me about your teaching day? Hours, conditions, students, type of instruction?


Eric
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8917
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

sharter wrote:
TQLS Kuwait, once you get the MA, BAe Saudi, CCL Recruitment for Aramco through HAK, UTG Libya. Try those. It's all about the money...the students are hit and miss.


Do you mean that HAK recruits for CCL Recruitment who recruits for Aramaco?
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12085
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are expecting students who will take responsibility for their own learning and developm,ent you will have to look very long and very hard in KSA.

It is ALL about getting grades and passing exams. The teacher is an authority figure and in a central place.

That is why strategies involving individualistic, student-centred learning rarely work in this culture.

But Saudi students CAN and DO learn. Some of them. Sometimes.


Last edited by scot47 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 15854
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
sharter wrote:
TQLS Kuwait, once you get the MA, BAe Saudi, CCL Recruitment for Aramco through HAK, UTG Libya. Try those. It's all about the money...the students are hit and miss.


Do you mean that HAK recruits for CCL Recruitment who recruits for Aramaco?

More likely it is CCL recruiting for HAK... who is, I believe, a contractor for Aramco. But, I'm just speculating. Relationships seem pretty obscure in this part of the world.

VS
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12085
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CCL is a RECRUITER. HAK (or Hakka ?) one of the many contractors. One oputfits recruits you, butyou sign your indentures with another, who then farms you out to ARAMCO.

Turbo-capitalism, Saudi style !
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bulgogiboy



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 787

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Money is not everything . . . Reply with quote

EricCC wrote:
cmp45 wrote:
Gulezar wrote:
EricCC wrote:
Money is not everything . . . but . . .
, and work with students who take some ownership over their learning.

Eric


Any takers? Please let me know where in Saudi Arabia that might be, or for that matter where in the Gulf?


Yes, it is doubtful you will find many students anywhere in the Gulf that even take 'some' owner ship over their learning.
Students, who 'consistently' take responsibility for their learning are rare indeed. Although you may come across a few every once in a while, they are indeed rare.



I think of ownership as being fairly attentive in class, completing homework, and not disturbing the class. I was a high school teacher in the US and have no interest in managing student behavior like I used to.

My point, I guess, is not that I want "perfect learners." Just learners who have some vested interest in behaving like a student.

Thanks for the feedback.


I would say Saudi Arabia, if not the whole Gulf region, may not be suitable for you. In my experience, inattentiveness and disruptive behaviour are pretty much inherent within the behaviour of many Arab students. Mobile phones are a constant pain, for example. Flawless punctuality isn't exactly aspired to either, and homework is often viewed as more of a suggestion than an obligation...

That's not to say you won't have nice students at times, as I'm sure you will, but if you don't want to waste time on classroom management then I think you'll have a tough time in Saudi, and the region as a whole.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12085
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know ANYWHERE that fits these requirements of the poster

'Anyone know of good companies or organizations to apply to? I hope to make 4K USD a month, have housing paid, and work with students who take some ownership over their learning. I come to work ready to teach and am more than willing to adjust to any new company / organization (I'm teachable despite having "experience").'

MAYBE in the Big Rock Candy Mountain ?
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Davai!!



Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 5
Location: small town KSA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP-

-Do you have a 120 hour Teacher training course (CELTA/TEFL)? This is required for a visa. No certificate, no job.

-Is your MA in TEEL from a brick-and-mortar institution? An MA/MS is not required but if yours is online/distance learning it won't count.

-With a CELTA/TEFL cert. and a regular Master's and your experience you should get a starting salary of about $3500 US + housing, flights, transpo, visa. With a CELTA/TEFL and no Master's, it will be about $3000 starting.

At some schools, you may get a little opportunity for overtime. (NOT guaranteed) You might also get a side job at night or do privates. This may get you up to the $4000 you require.

(My experience is based on Prep Year programs, for example at KSU - EDEX/ICEAT)

Also, be prepared for a major delay in visa processing. Mine took 6 weeks after the initial date I was promised. Basically a loss of $5000!!

-If you are American, consider the Income Based Repayment plan for your student loans. You pay 10% of your salary over $16500. (Poverty level x 1.5) So, if you make 40,000 per year at your job, you pay $2350 per year in student loans, so $200/month. Any remainder after 20 years is forgiven!
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currentaffairs



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Money not everything but you can make enough here to pay off your loans. I have two outstanding student loans that I will pay off -finally-. It is very manageable if you get any half decent university job.

Seems to be the average is around 3400 US Dollars per month with accommodation and transport included. You can make a little more with a MA.

If you are a direct hire then this figure will go up but not by too much, I think. You will get a lot more holiday, though.

The Aramco deal seems to be dependent on who you go through. I have heard of teachers getting around the same figure as above or less.

Concerning the students, as others have pointed out, they will need managing and you have to be on top of them constantly because they are late, lazy, disinterested and a rabble at times. I taught in UK schools and classroom management is easier, but it is not a cakewalk and student motivation is often quite low.
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jargonscott



Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Money is not everything . . . Reply with quote

Dominic-Pax wrote:


You will make more money here, but the learners in South Korea are amazingly better. Ownership and learning do not collocate with Saudi Arabian students. Please knock that out of your head right away.

Do not get your hopes up too high with Saudi Arabia. In the end, the lifestyle in South Korea is much better.


Agreed. I took the opposite route. After my contract in Saudi Arabia, I moved to S. Korea. I get paid less now, but my day to day life is a million times more enjoyable. It's all about trade-offs and your personal preference. Someone could offer me 6k a month to return to the kingdom and I'd still turn them down. It's just not how I want to spend my days. I'm a lot happier elsewhere.

I'm sure you can find most of what you're looking for in the middle east, though I'd suggest looking at the UAE instead of KSA. However, finding motivated/invested/engaged students will prove to be a challenge. If 20% of your students legitimately care about their education, I think you're doing pretty good.
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