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Have I been blacklisted?
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neverheardofem



Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:04 am    Post subject: Have I been blacklisted? Reply with quote

I have been applying for jobs in China but a thought just occurred to me which has since built up to be quite a worry. About 3 years ago, I did a bit of a lousy thing. I applied for a position through a well known recruiter, accepted and signed a contract. The school applied for my invitation letter, I received it by UPS but then decided not to go for personal reasons. My dad was sick at the time which was a factor, but to be quite honest, I just didnít feel right about it. I know I should have realised this sooner. Anyway, the recruiter got really annoyed and said that I should go, Iím letting down the school; cost them a lot of money, etc. I felt terrible and they were quite right to be angry but I didnít want to do something that didnít feel right. Anyway, she said that she would have no choice but to report me to the SAFEA.

Now 3 years on, I really want to go all the way this time Ė but will this affect my ability to gain the visa?

Thanks!
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danasoverseasemail



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many threads on this subject.

However, the process the employer went through does not cost money, so no money was lost.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danasoverseasemail wrote:
Many threads on this subject.

However, the process the employer went through does not cost money, so no money was lost.


really? it's all free?

no cost for phone calls, and secretarial staff, or to fedex documents,
and no fee to apply for the invitation letter and the work permit?

maybe you want to rephrase your answer?
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Miles Smiles



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first time that I intended to come to China, I was in a car accident right before I was to leave the country. I had the visa, but I had to back out. The school was a bit miffed, and I don't think anyone believed me.

A year later, I got an email from the FAO asking me if I was interested in reapplying. I told her that I was already in China, working for another school. I never heard back from her.

Just don't mention that you backed out of your first job.
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peewee1979



Joined: 30 Jun 2011
Posts: 167
Location: Once in China was enough. Burned and robbed by Delter and watching others get cheated was enough.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of a blacklist - I would venture to say that a recruiter has so little say in this if it really exists.

IF a blacklist exists those on it should have committed some egregious breach OF THE LAW. Doing a runner, showing up drunk, banging your female students are not of such a highly serious nature in China it seems and would not get you on a GOVERNMENT APPROVED blacklist.

Recruiters and schools sharing information on a www site may constitute an unofficial blacklist but should not preclude people from coming and getting a real visa.
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therock



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danasoverseasemail wrote:
Many threads on this subject.

However, the process the employer went through does not cost money, so no money was lost.


Are you sure?

I got told it costs 3000rmb to apply for the invitation letter. One school wanted me to pay the actual costs, obviously I told that school where to stick their job.
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peewee1979



Joined: 30 Jun 2011
Posts: 167
Location: Once in China was enough. Burned and robbed by Delter and watching others get cheated was enough.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

therock wrote:
danasoverseasemail wrote:
Many threads on this subject.

However, the process the employer went through does not cost money, so no money was lost.


Are you sure?

I got told it costs 3000rmb to apply for the invitation letter. One school wanted me to pay the actual costs, obviously I told that school where to stick their job.


I can't imagine it costs 3000 rmb for the invitation letter or work permit BUT I will ask the fao next time I see her and post her answers (assuming she answers me).
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peewee is right: You are not blacklisted after 3 years because of a contract 3 years ago. These last for one year. Something else is up.

Recruiters make a lot of money for getting a foreign teacher for a school. Fees are typically anywhere from several thousand to over ten thousand yuan. The recruiter was angry she lost so much money when it seemed a good thing. She most likely did not 'have' to report anything, but the chances are she did out of spite because the school probably complained bitterly about her 'promise' of getting them a white-faced actor to attract students to their 'learning institute'.

In China, money is king. If you cost someone money, they will remember. If you cost someone a lot of money, revenge is not unheard of. "Turn the other cheek", or "Suck it up and move on" are nice little catch phrases seldom applied here.

This is simply a cost of doing business. People can and will change their minds. People are not slaves and should not be forced to do something they choose not to do. There are always extenuating circumstances, and believe me... our bosses care not one iota about our families or personal issues. Shut up and do your job. Anything that will stop the boss from making money will cause friction.

In conclusion, schools make an enormous amount of money simply because they have a white foreign face. The chances of every white person they come across to work for them decide to stay a full year in a foreign land without a single quirk or problem is miniscule.
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therock



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peewee1979 wrote:
therock wrote:
danasoverseasemail wrote:
Many threads on this subject.

However, the process the employer went through does not cost money, so no money was lost.


Are you sure?

I got told it costs 3000rmb to apply for the invitation letter. One school wanted me to pay the actual costs, obviously I told that school where to stick their job.


I can't imagine it costs 3000 rmb for the invitation letter or work permit BUT I will ask the fao next time I see her and post her answers (assuming she answers me).


That's what I got told from a school, not sure if it's true or total BS, but it seems reasonable.

It's not reasonable for the school to ask the teacher to cover these costs.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My FAO gave me an update on the blacklist 18 months or so ago and I gained the impression it was being rolled out.
You may have missed being blacklisted because the FE Administration in that area hadn't gotten on line then.
Trouble is you might not find out for sure until you are in China and your employer fronts the local office and attempts to get you a permit to stay for a year.
Difficult.
You could be straight up and tell all.....
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neverheardofem



Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies. I was just looking through old emails and see that it was actually 2 years ago. The last email was the one that scares me 'We will have no choice to report your case to the State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs (SAFEA) of the People's Republic of China for a record' Yikes.
In fairness (to me!), they really rush me into it -from the emails I see my whole contact with them from beginning to end took place over about 3 weeks! But I'm not making excuses for myself! I shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place.

The job I bowed out of was in a completely different province to the one I'm interested in going for this time - would that make a difference? Also, I never actually went to the embassy in my country to apply for the visa, I just had the invitation letter. Gosh, I don't know what to do! It would be terrible to arrive there and be refused the work permit.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I'm aware it's a national scheme.
Better 'fess up - maybe after or as part of a phone interview which you think went well.
I'd only try it with an employer. An agent would encourage you to come on over and hope like hell that somehow they'd have their cash before the blacklisting is discovered.
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wangdaning



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You did nothing wrong, even if they paid money for it. You will not be on any official list. You got documents to apply, but never applied. Absolutely nothing they can do, or should do given the situation.

Even in the given city, I would think you are clear, unless the former employer has control/contacts in the capital or word of mouth things.

Maybe mention you had a bad time the last time, and explain why. Don't say blacklist and such. "I was prepared to go, but my father fell ill." Nobody will doubt this, but they will ask about how your dad is now and if you will leave if he falls ill. If you talk about why he was ill they will not fully get it. Sorry, but, he is dead, still might get ill, or completely healthy (do not wish to get into your fathers health, but they will ask). If you talk about the past thing, you need to make them believe you are on no matter what happens. I would just leave it out of all communication with new schools.

In no way are you blacklisted by not accepting the invitation letter Exclamation
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
> *1. if job-seekers signed contract with a china employer but decid to break the contract after the employers spend lots of time and effort on the
> working visa invitation docs. The employer will mostly report the
> job-seekers' information to government blacklist which means the job-seeker
> will hardly be able to get legal employment in China again. so please do
> think carefully if anyone wants to break the contract or try to cheat for
> the working visa docs.*


This was a standard blurb on all of the e-mail correspondence I got when I was applying for my current position. Lots of times they say things that aren't true, but I just thought you should be prepared. (After I got here, I found out I was blacklisted for another reason, but I appealed and won.)
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eihpos



Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear - thanks for that. Ok, I did sign a contract but I didn't actually start work - can you break a contract if you didn't start it? It seems harsh that I would never be allowed work in China for this!

So, it shounds like I would probaby have no difficulty getting the visa, but may arrive and be rejected the work permit? Is there anyway of finding out before I accept another position? Like contacting SAFEA or would I have to tell my new prospective employer?
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