| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
TRH
Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 80
Location: HCMC
|
 Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: Work permit ? |
 |
|
| Mattingly wrote: |
I've heard the WP + Residency Permit costing that much. Yes.
But only the Work Permit, no.
The WP has turned into a way to over-charge foreigners and over-charge them a lot.
You notarize your docs
translate them (very cheap)
Get a WP physical (blood tests for TB/HIV (About $70-80)
Police Clearance/Criminal check (cheap where I'm from).
Submit docs, then get a stamp.
Of course....nothing is clear....or easy as it seems. Or, cheap as it should be. |
I know this is kind of drifting off topic but since I am working off of Mattingly's comment here are my questions.
1) If I get a health check in the US and get it notarized and certified by the US State Dept/Vietnamese embassy in DC, what needs to be checked besides HIV and TB or is that it? (I am sending my transcript anyway so it is not a lot of trouble to send additional papers.)
2) The police clearance I got in Hawaii specifically states that it is only a Hawaii records check. Is it sufficient or will I need an FBI check.
I am retired and marrying a Viet citizen so I am not too concerned about getting a WP or even a full time job but I want to have my paperwork lined up just in case I need it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 185
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Work permit ? |
|
|
| TRH wrote: |
| Mattingly wrote: |
I've heard the WP + Residency Permit costing that much. Yes.
But only the Work Permit, no.
The WP has turned into a way to over-charge foreigners and over-charge them a lot.
You notarize your docs
translate them (very cheap)
Get a WP physical (blood tests for TB/HIV (About $70-80)
Police Clearance/Criminal check (cheap where I'm from).
Submit docs, then get a stamp.
Of course....nothing is clear....or easy as it seems. Or, cheap as it should be. |
I know this is kind of drifting off topic but since I am working off of Mattingly's comment here are my questions.
1) If I get a health check in the US and get it notarized and certified by the US State Dept/Vietnamese embassy in DC, what needs to be checked besides HIV and TB or is that it? (I am sending my transcript anyway so it is not a lot of trouble to send additional papers.)
2) The police clearance I got in Hawaii specifically states that it is only a Hawaii records check. Is it sufficient or will I need an FBI check.
I am retired and marrying a Viet citizen so I am not too concerned about getting a WP or even a full time job but I want to have my paperwork lined up just in case I need it. |
You can get the medical here for about $50 or maybe it's more now as another poster said it was closer to $100. I think that would be the better way to go when you don't know what they are checking for exactly.
The criminal record check can be done here after 6 months. Getting married here is another story. It's not too expensive but it is a lot of paperwork. One day you sign a book and that's it! If you want something more formal as in a party and VN ceremony then the cost will vary.
I would look into the FBI CRC. That may be necessary.
I think it's important to notarize anything that needs to be before you come here. It seems Americans must get this done through their home government. Your embassy cannot help you. So you would have to mail all the documents and costs to someone back home and ask them to do it for you. Get it done before you leave.
Some proof of income may be necessary to rent a house or open a bank account. If you work here that's just the contract you signed. If not I don't know. Maybe someone else can address this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 185
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DNK wrote: |
Not sure about these office hours. I've never had to work for free at AMA. There are "admin hours", which are lower paid and optional.
Otherwise, VC hits it on the head. To add, they're currently forcing teachers to pay to get a WP or else, so that's an additional $1000 issue for joining the school. I think that changes the benefits of starting teaching there: before, the low pay was made up for by the ease of teaching and low responsibilities and general lack of meaningful oversight/observation -it made for a good opportunity to "get your feet wet" indeed- but now it's a fairly costly opportunity... |
'Office Hours' was the term used in my contract. I was asked to do the work during a period of time I had no classes and remuneration was not offered even when I brought it up. I chalked it up to miscommunication or incompetent low level management. But it was suspicious enough to warrant mentioning in MHO. I have had a similar experience with another school but now I inquire during the interview.
I think some smaller schools are unable or outright avoiding paying a salary for full duties. They offer a rate for contact time then try to evade or low ball the admin work. They aren't forthcoming during the hiring process leaving one to honestly expect only contact hours. Later they'll just tell you to do it and the onus is on you to react. So now I ask in the interview to avoid potential unpleasantness after I've settled into a job I like.
I like to know what my duties and pay are before I sign on the dotted line.
Apparently here you have to ask explicitly and maybe even push a bit to get the answers.
This isn't just a Cleverlearn issue in my experience. It may be just the way of doing business here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DNK
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: the South
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well, this must have changed or you worked at a place under different management, like D7 or VT. I don't know what to say, it's not the case with any of the teachers I know working there presently. The pay for office hours isn't great - $12, I think - but it's basically "sit there, prep, surf the internet, and interview an incoming student once an hour for 10 mins." I certainly would like some of those hours, but they aren't forthcoming - I've even asked for them a few times to no avail. What an odd situation  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 185
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DNK wrote: |
| Well, this must have changed or you worked at a place under different management, like D7 or VT. I don't know what to say, it's not the case with any of the teachers I know working there presently. The pay for office hours isn't great - $12, I think - but it's basically "sit there, prep, surf the internet, and interview an incoming student once an hour for 10 mins." I certainly would like some of those hours, but they aren't forthcoming - I've even asked for them a few times to no avail. What an odd situation |
I agree. That's why I pointed out that other teachers have been there for years and were happy. But there is no doubt. I was not offered anything and my Vietnamese wife discussed the issue with the management. They said that particular person was crazy, they don't expect me to work for free and just ignore the person.
I still didn't get any offer for pay. I even brought it up with a couple co-workers and they said nothing about getting paid.
I couldn't ignore the manager as the person kept harassing me. Sending e-mails to management claiming I had refused to respond to e-mails when in fact I did and could prove it. Showing up in the room where I was getting my pay to pick an argument. Following me out onto the street was the last straw. I never went back.
They docked me $20 when they could have docked me much more as per the contract and continue to offer me work in their other school. The public school.
I don't really care at this point but prospective employees should understand they must negotiate for office hours or admin work separately and not assume the contact hour rate applies or, as I did, that only contact hours were required.
This is possibly good advice for any position offering hourly rates, not just Cleverlearn.
I went to an interview yesterday and it was like pulling teeth to find out that they too had office hours. After half an hour or so the best I could get was that they were willing to discuss anything. Of course I turned the job down. If they can't be straight with me in the interview then I would be a mad, masochist to work for them!
My other positions, including an offer I accepted last week had no such issues. I was told straight out that my hourly rate would apply to any non contact hours required. They have proven true to their word at this point.
It's possibly a work culture issue. Perhaps VN teachers do it and some don't understand that westerners don't or shouldn't IMHO. But to each his own. I don't. I am not VN, I just live and work in VN. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andy123
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 206
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Your statement is true but more so with Neverlearn. Well said, yet so true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oh My God
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 233
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nim Chimsky wrote: |
Hi Teachers
I was told from a Vietnamese manager at cleverlearn that the school wants to eliminate the franchise agreement with cleverlearn during the next two years so it doesnt have to pay royalties. and is trying to market AMA now
Dont know if this is true but he got upset when I called the school neverlearn
and told me to in a indirect clever manner never say it again. I said that I would never never call cleverlearn neverlearn again. He did not get the joke.
Best regards |
Why do you have so much extra time? It's not May Day anymore.
Nim Chimsky wrote:
| Quote: |
I have been working in Vietnam for about ten years and I am similar to the majority of EFL teachers in Vietnam.
The similarity is that most EFL teachers in Vietnam do not post on this website for whatever reason. I am very happy with my life and current job here. I am also very busy and don't really have the time to contribute to this website. Today is May Day
so I have some free time to discuss TEFL International (TI). |
I'm just asking, no disrespect intended. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nim Chimsky
Joined: 28 Apr 2012
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Oh My God
Well I have more time now since I have trained one of my staff to do most of my work. The most important thing about being a manager is that you have excellent delegation skills and more importantly you have persons to delegate to. So always employ someone who is smarter than you are and ambitious but a little passive. You dont want them taking your job. I am generally busy the last week of the month completing reports etc, not anymore i have an intelligent slave. I alwys feel sooory for those managers who have to do everything themselves but thats not a real manager is it?
You will learn sooner or later.
Best regards
Nim Chimsky |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Riding One
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 43
|
| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| VietCanada wrote: |
I agree. That's why I pointed out that other teachers have been there for years and were happy. But there is no doubt. I was not offered anything and my Vietnamese wife discussed the issue with the management. They said that particular person was crazy, they don't expect me to work for free and just ignore the person. |
This is a sign that you need to LEAVE. Quickly.
They told you that a person was "crazy" and that you should "ignore" them. But that said person, is employed....at the same company you are?
| Quote: |
| I still didn't get any offer for pay. |
This is when you say, "no."
| Quote: |
| I even brought it up with a couple co-workers and they said nothing about getting paid. |
Another reason to say not "no" but, "good-bye."
| Quote: |
I couldn't ignore the manager as the person kept harassing me. Sending e-mails to management claiming I had refused to respond to e-mails when in fact I did and could prove it. Showing up in the room where I was getting my pay to pick an argument. Following me out onto the street was the last straw. I never went back. |
You never went back. That is the best move.
| Quote: |
They docked me $20 when they could have docked me much more as per the contract and continue to offer me work in their other school. The public school. |
Where did the $20 dollars go? In someone's pocket.
| Quote: |
I don't really care at this point but prospective employees should understand they must negotiate for office hours or admin work separately and not assume the contact hour rate applies or, as I did, that only contact hours were required.
This is possibly good advice for any position offering hourly rates, not just Cleverlearn.
I went to an interview yesterday and it was like pulling teeth to find out that they too had office hours. After half an hour or so the best I could get was that they were willing to discuss anything. Of course I turned the job down. If they can't be straight with me in the interview then I would be a mad, masochist to work for them!
My other positions, including an offer I accepted last week had no such issues. I was told straight out that my hourly rate would apply to any non contact hours required. They have proven true to their word at this point.
It's possibly a work culture issue. Perhaps VN teachers do it and some don't understand that westerners don't or shouldn't IMHO. But to each his own. I don't. I am not VN, I just live and work in VN. |
Folks,
It is no secret. Cleverlearn is the bottom of the barrel. (No, I never worked there, but know many close friends that did).
Cleverlearn is a dodgy organization, be it in Saigon, D7, small towns, or in Hanoi.
Avoid this place. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DNK
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: the South
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
"dodgy" - yeah, okay. He got penalized for quitting work and canceling a class without notice and... they charged him $20. I don't want to dig up old work contracts from back home, but quitting without notice and expecting a full paycheck for time already put in at the end of the month seems like it would have been crazy in the US - but $20, dear Jesus, how dodgy. AND THEY EVEN OFFERED HIM HOURS IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS LATER.
Dodgy, dodgy place I've been working at all this time.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Penelope1
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 4
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 239
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think they're in the old Cleverlearn building, but that's all I know. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bobpen
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 72
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ah here's the AMA thread I was looking for.
| VietCanada wrote: |
I like the branch that sends me out to schools |
Any quote on how much they offer for public school work? Is it the same as their hourly rate in-branch, lower, or significantly lower? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 185
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know what the current rate is but I was offered 14-16 per hour to start. Raises are possible after 6 months. You need a TEFL cert. to work there. Low pay/steady work compromise.
In Vietnam all the holidays, school closings for exams or whatever, no summer work mean that you may never actually get a whole months pay ( as calculated). This is true for most schools though not just AMA. You'll need evening and weekend work to make ends meet or save money at these rates.
If you think of working in Vietnam as being about collecting a bunch of low paying part time jobs then you might like AMA in your portfolio because they appear to be a solid, respected presence to the public schools in HCMC. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cb400
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 66
Location: Hanoi
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
AMA is cleverlearn, with a new name. The idea was the reputation of CL was so bad they would do damage limitation by changing the name.
Same people running the same shit show. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
