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The other 2012 Election.
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Mexico (off-topic)
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Dragonlady



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadBeagleBad wrote:
...I am starting to see why there is that thingie in the constitution about foreigners not becoming involved in politics. You might live in Mexico, but it is NOT your country, and your interest in the future is not the same as for a citizen or a long time resident. You can leave at any time, while those of us whose lives are here, can't. ...

I must admit I take offence to this remark.

Would the poster kindly explain whether or not it is indeed their country. One is quick to tell us that she holds passports for both Mexico and the USA, uses same to whatever advantage situations that arise may call for, states that she's chosen Mexico as her home yet freely admits she spends a lot of time visiting and shopping across the border...

Tell me, is it your legal right to vote in both elections?

If so
    a) don't you think your comments are a little, ah contradictory
    b) don't you think there's a conflict of interest and such citizens should be required to make up their minds once and for all as to which side of the fence they want to sit on?
    c) to which republic is your first loyalty?

Just curious...
DL
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:49 am    Post subject: Thanks DL................................................... Reply with quote

Thanks DL for saying more succinctly what I was thinking and for bringing up the situation of a possible conflict of interest here. I am new to this board, but is BBB usually this strident and nasty.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: BBB where are you..................... Reply with quote

It don't know, if DL's question is valid or not, but are you eligible to vote in both elections, if so then isn't that kinda a conflict of interest in some way. By the way the Mexican constitution is right about foreigners getting involved in politics, but I do not think that includes curtailing free speech.

I just find it ironic that you use deomocratic documents to try to silence speech here on this board. Are you that intolerant of other peoples points of view. I must admit I tip my hat to DL in pointing out a possible bit of hypocracy on your behalf BBB. Come out of the woodwork and answer my questions and other questions that have been asked of you here on the board. I would only say that I would never use a democratic document such as the constituion of Mexico to try and silence free debate anywhere, but I guess some people prize democracy and democratic freedoms more than others. Or put it another way democracy is for me, but not for you. I hope you will answer all the questions posed to you on this board BBB, because silence or attempted bullying will not silence these questions or the people asking the questions Exclamation

Oh, by the way, if you hold both the U.S. and Mexican passports can't you leave Mexico even, if you are either a citizen or a long term resident just as I can leave anytime once again I thank DL for showing your hypocritical arguement, if she is right then you can leave Mexico anytime you want and live somewhere else, if that is true you really are a hypocite of the first order. Again, if I'm wrong call me on it and I will apologize most abjectly, but when a veteran of this board calls you out I feel comfortable in following suit Exclamation

I detest bullies of all kinds and you seem to be one of the worst kinds isn't that what happened to your candiate Lopez Obrador and you are acting just like his opponents, but on a lesser scale. You seem to have painted yourself into a corner please come out and answer the questions being asked of you.
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AGoodStory



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: BBB where are you..................... Reply with quote

disraeli123 wrote:

I hope you will answer all the questions posed to you on this board BBB, because silence or attempted bullying will not silence these questions or the people asking the questions Exclamation

Oh, by the way, if you hold both the U.S. and Mexican passports can't you leave Mexico even, if you are either a citizen or a long term resident just as I can leave anytime once again I thank DL for showing your hypocritical arguement, if she is right then you can leave Mexico anytime you want and live somewhere else, if that is true you really are a hypocite of the first order. Again, if I'm wrong call me on it and I will apologize most abjectly, but when a veteran of this board calls you out I feel comfortable in following suit Exclamation

I detest bullies of all kinds and you seem to be one of the worst kinds come out and answer the questions being asked of you.



Frankly, BBB does not seem to be the one doing the bullying here.

.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Bullying Who ME............................................. Reply with quote

Nice try, but it wasn't me trying to use the Mexican Constitution to silence people and it wasn't me who was basically telling someone to mind their own, business. If you had taken the time to read what lead up to that quote you would have seen not only me, but someone else asked some tough questions as well.

If BBB does have 2 passports and can vote in boith elections that means that she can leave this country when she wants as well and in some ways has the same options she accused me of, so, if questions are good for the goose their good for the gander.


Last edited by disraeli123 on Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Bullying Who ME......................................... Reply with quote

disraeli123 wrote:


I'm not bullying I'm just reacting maybe a little to strongly to someone else who seems to be a bully and possibly more than that.


I think that bullying often exists more in the eye of the person feeling bullied than anywhere else. Does that make any sense? Anyway, I know BBB pretty well, and while she is a woman with a strong will and decided opinions, she is not, in my opinion a bully.
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MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: BBB where are you..................... Reply with quote

AGoodStory wrote:


Frankly, BBB does not seem to be the one doing the bullying here.



I'm with a goodstory here too. Both on this thread and across the board...
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Dragonlady



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok ladies, sheathe your claws... the topic is politics, where everyone is allowed to get their knees in knots!

DL
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:04 am    Post subject: Bullying.................................................... Reply with quote

Ladies, you should know that ganging up on someone is also, a form of bullying. You disgree with me about BBB well that is what free speech is all about. Smile I would just leave you with a quote from John Adams" In politics freedom of speech and the documents that protect that speech should not be used to try and silence free debate." (Inaugural Address-March 3, 1797) Read BBB's earlier musings about the Mexican Constitution and then not only look at what I wrote, but also other questions asked by other people about the same quote. If BBB wasn't using the Mexican Constitution to silence me or put me on the defensive then what was she doing? I may not know as much about Mexican history as BBB, but I know enough that freedom is fragile and it needs to be nurtured not stymied. Again read everything and see, if I might have a point Question
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest that everyone quickly return to the topic at hand and avoid the personal asides. Address the message and not the messenger. If not, this thread will no longer be available and sanctions will be issued, as warranted.

If your goal in coming to this board is to work people up and discuss politics ad infinitum, this is probably not the best board for you.

Political discussions are not among the primary goals of this board and such discussions are kept on a very short leash here. Would you believe shorter than my dog's leash?

Based on some of the comments posted on this thread, reviewing the following is probably not a bad idea:


http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=89833
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dragonlady wrote:
BadBeagleBad wrote:
...I am starting to see why there is that thingie in the constitution about foreigners not becoming involved in politics. You might live in Mexico, but it is NOT your country, and your interest in the future is not the same as for a citizen or a long time resident. You can leave at any time, while those of us whose lives are here, can't. ...

I must admit I take offence to this remark.

Would the poster kindly explain whether or not it is indeed their country. One is quick to tell us that she holds passports for both Mexico and the USA, uses same to whatever advantage situations that arise may call for, states that she's chosen Mexico as her home yet freely admits she spends a lot of time visiting and shopping across the border...

Tell me, is it your legal right to vote in both elections?

If so
    a) don't you think your comments are a little, ah contradictory
    b) don't you think there's a conflict of interest and such citizens should be required to make up their minds once and for all as to which side of the fence they want to sit on?
    c) to which republic is your first loyalty?

Just curious...
DL


Nope. I think there is a huge difference between someone who lives in a country long term and is making it their home, and someone who has been living for a few months, and really doesn't even know what the politcal parties are, or who is the candidate for each party. It is NOT their county, it is just a place they happen to be for a while. They are not invested in any way in the future of the country. That is MY opinion, and I am just as entitled to it as you are to yours. I can legally vote in both countries because both countries say I can. However, not that it is really your concern, I have decided not to vote in the upcoming US election for many of the reasons you cited. I don't plan to even live in the US and I am not invested in it's future. I know what I would LIKE to see, but since I don't live in the US I don't feel it is my decision to make, or really have any part of. And until one country or the other tells me I have to decide, nope, don't see a problem with having two passports, there are many people who have two, and even three. Why on earth does it both YOU so much?
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Dragonlady



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks BBB for being open - you weren't obliged to respond.
The number of passports one holds was never my concern - my curiosity was whether or not one had the legal right to vote in both countries.

Thanks again.

DL
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Dragonlady



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump..

Just wanted to make sure we were still on 'speaking terms' BBB ... seriously.

DL
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Going back to the other election of 2012.................... Reply with quote

I hope that the results of the other election will be a little more clear cut than yesterdays election was. You need clear majorities both in the election of a president and in the legislature as well. The largest vote as a plurality will always bring inertia since the person who won by less than 50%+1 can be called not fully representative of the people since the majority voted against him or her.

Inertia has been the problem north of the border for the last 2 years I hope it will end one way or the other with the upcoming election. Inertia is not good for anyone it creates discontent which can spawn other problems which may not be easily handled. Only time will tell whether yesterdays election will work out. We should all hope so since we have made the decision to live in Mexico. I also, hope that the other election will also work out well since the results will one way or another have consequences for all of us here in Mexico.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: By the way is this topic the Mexican election or the U.S Reply with quote

disraeli123 wrote:
I would say we should transfer our discussion to the Mexican election topic this is suppose to be about the other 2012 election otherwise known as the U.S. election.


Now the election is done in Mexico and Pena Nieto will be Mexico's new President!

Hope he does well and can improve things, but I don't have high hopes. I do think more will get done as the PRI will be the majority power again... and they did stonewall reforms and legislation for the last 12 years.

My loyalty is with the country which I grew up in, which gives me a passport with which I can travel the world without begging for visas, that still offers opportunity and advancement possibilities, both to it's own citizens and to those whom have chosen to immigrate legally. Not all like Mexico which always treats foreigners differently and which ensures that even naturalized Mexicans will NEVER be more than 2nd class, 2nd rate citizens. Thanks, but NO thanks, Mexico.
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