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The other 2012 Election.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:05 am    Post subject: I get where your coming from, but I think Mexico can be..... Reply with quote

Prof. Gringo, I believe your right about loyalties, but I'm new to Mexico just recieved my FM-3 visa and opened a new bank account. I like it here in Mexico and I intend to live here for awhile. I hope my experience with Mexican immigration is better than yours I hope I'm treated well, because I have been thinking of a second citizenship and have at least right now planned it to be Mexican citizenship, but your birthplace will always have to come first and loyalty is something sorely lacking in todays world.

Also our election will probably bring in a new president who can hopefully renew the American economy and country. I would say that not everyone on this board would agree with you or me, but their problem is that they allow their ideology get in the way of their common sense Americas, best days are still ahead of her, but living here gives you perspective on both countries.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Prof. Gringo it seems that.................................. Reply with quote

Prof. Gringo it seems that only you and I are interested in the next election of 2012. I will say right up front a lot of people around the world and even on this board are going to be surprised how fast the U.S. recovers once it has a competent president and a congress that actually understands elementary economics and not Das Kapital 101. Competence is going to be one of the major themes of this election as well as results which so far the incumbent is both incompetent and his results bear that conclusion out.

I am not going to make grand predictions only that many people around the world are going to be shocked who wins, but if they followed U.S. history it isn't to tough to make a general prediction both on the presidential side and who will hold the House and take the Senate. Then Das Kapital can be retired again hopefully for good. The left no matter which country we talk about almost always sets in motion economic disasters that they then blame on Capitalism, but then people who understand basic economics have to come in and fix the mess that people who follow Das Kapital cause. The last great leftist disaster in the U.S., before this one 1977 to 1980 Jimmy Carter Reagan cleaned that one up. Well, again hopefully Das Kapital is finally retired for good in November.


Last edited by disraeli123 on Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think Obama is a leftist then you are woefully uneducated about politics.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:22 am    Post subject: I'm talking about U.S. politics and since I come from....... Reply with quote

Hello BBB, I'm talking about U.S. politics. As you probably know the U.S. political spectrum is unlike most of the world. Just as a quick aside I come from Massachusetts the home of Ted Kennedy and other American leftist politicians believe me under the U.S. political spectrum Obama is about as far left as they come.

I am looking at this election from the point of view of the U.S. I know outside the U.S. Obama is considered by many as a moderate middle of the road type politician. Like I said the U.S. spectrum is very different and the U.S. electorate usually do not tolerate leftists especially leftists who make great promises then fail. BBB you and I will never agree on politics we just come from different points of view, but here believe me under the political rules in the U.S. Obama is probably one of the most left leaning presidents in the history of the U.S. He is even further left of center than Ted Kennedy and that is pretty far left under the ground rules of U.S. politics
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy lights a match

BBB, you'd really need to spend some time in the US to appreciate the comments above.. I mean, what would a Mexican living in Mexico know about this topic?

Guy runs away giggling
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MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A person is either very young, or has a very short memory if s/he thinks Obama is as left as they come. If we line Obama's record up next to Reagan's they are pretty much holding hands on most issues. What has happened in the US is a very malicious group of right wingers, have taken advantage of the working class's religious convictions to pull the country in a way that has allowed them to go from rich to filthy rich while living their poor voting praying harder and harder for salvation that these leaders are purposely keeping them from.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reagan and Obama PLEASE..................................... Reply with quote

Hello Mother F, First of all I'm not young 52 is more like it. Reagan was the first president I voted for so please don't try to say that Obama is just about the same as Reagan. First Obama wants to end the GWB tax cuts Reagan would be for more tax cuts not less. If you remember he cut taxes when he came into office by 25%. He also was a great proponent of building up the U.S. military Obama has proposed sharp cuts in the military. One last major difference Reagan proposed cuts in domestic spending and got some of them Obama is in favor of more and more domestic spending. I could list at least 4 or 5 more differences between Barack Obama's policies and Ronald Reagan's policies. Reagan was the most conservative president since before World War 2. Obama has been the most Liberal read(Socialist) in the history of the U.S. Edward (Ted) M. Kennedy was right of Obama and that is saying something and please do not try to tell me about Ted Kennedy I grew up with him as my Senator until he died a few years ago I know his political philosophy and Obama is slightly left of Ted.

I know left leaning people like to try to make Reagan to be a moderate today, but PLEASE I campaigned for the man and I still have some of his position papers, believe me he is no where near Obama on the U.S. political spectrum. By the way you can blame the malicious right wingers in the U.S. all you want, but the problem is that you'd be talking about more than 40% of the population. Again U.S. citizens are not as STUPID as some people think they are could it just be they disagree with some other people's politics.

U.S. politics is by it's very nature further right than most countries, because it's citizens have a large pool of respect for the wisdom of the founding fathers and are very reluctant to change things. That is why Obama is in so much trouble right now. I would welcome a response.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama might be considered to the left of Romney, but that does not make him a leftist by any means. I would put him to the right of Clinton, even, who was pretty much a centrist as well. As hard as it might be for some people to believe, the US is not the center of the universe, and being left of someone else, relatively speaking doesn't make someone a leftist, just less to the right. Romney, for example, is to the left of Atila the Hun.
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Reagan and Obama PLEASE................................. Reply with quote

disraeli123 wrote:


I know left leaning people like to try to make Reagan to be a moderate today, but PLEASE I campaigned for the man and I still have some of his position papers, believe me he is no where near Obama on the U.S. political spectrum. By the way you can blame the malicious right wingers in the U.S. all you want, but the problem is that you'd be talking about more than 40% of the population. Again U.S. citizens are not as STUPID as some people think they are could it just be they disagree with some other people's politics.

.


Most people don't consider another person "stupid" because he disagrees with them politically. But someone as confused about the rather easily understood concepts of fact and ideology as the above post suggests is another matter entirely--I have to believe the poster is merely attempting (successfully) to be provocative.

.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Who said the U.S. was............?? Reply with quote

For BBB, Bill Clinton was and is a centrist, but if you ask most political people in the U.S. you'd find that they would agree with me that Obama is left of Clinton by quite a large margin, but everyone has their own perceptions of politics. I never said that the U.S. was the center of the world that was you who used that term. As I said when I began this talk that because of the differences, between the U.S. political culture and the rest of the world's political cultures the terms I'm using pertain to the U.S. not the rest of the world. Being called a leftist is relative according to the political rules of each country in the U.S. Obama is a leftist in the rest of the world maybe not. I'll end this by saying that people take things that are said whichever way their mind tells them to. That does not mean anything was meant to provoke or cause a reaction. I just think that a perspective that is not in the usual line of thought here on this stage has the right to be heard even, if it isn't the self reinforcing same or more or less the same point of view usually seen here.

I'm here in Mexico to work not to get involved in her politics, but it was interesting to watch the election. My intent here is to give my perceptions of the U.S. election. As I said above I never mentioned the U.S. as the center of the world or Universe that came from somewhere else not me. To some people Romney might be left of Atila the Hun, but in the general U.S. political spectrum he is just slightly right of center actually left of Reagan, but again every person has their own political perceptions. As I also, said before BBB we'll never agree politically we just come from two different points of view.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Confused....?? Reply with quote

Xie Lin, You might think I'm confused, but believe me I'm not confused about this topic. Did I mean to cause people to think by using the terms PLEASE and STUPID in my post yes I did mean to have people think. I have seen and heard through to many posts on this stage people put down specific points of view just like you did with my point of view. Where have I confused facts and ideology? I simply stated that I campaigned for Reagan and I know his positions on the issues and I stated with facts earlier in that entry Obama and Reagan were not close on the U.S. political spectrum. I also, gave my opinion that if the right in the U.S. was malicious (not my term) then people were calling about 40% of the electorate malicious, because the latest polls in the U.S. show that 40% of the electorate consider themselves conservative or right of center.

I get that the majority if not most of the people who post here do not agree with my political point of view, but whether you agree with it or not you will find that my point of view is shared by many if not more than the majority of the electorate north of here and you will see the results in November. I expect to read rather harsh remarks on this particular topic in November dealing with the results of the U.S. elections. Just my perception that a Romney victory will be ridiculed here and so will be the U.S. electorate as well for voting for Mitt Romney. As I said everyone has their own perceptions and ideas and Xie Lin I'm not confused between fact and ideology. Reagan was right and his positions on issues are vastly right of Barack Obama and my use of terms such as leftist, left and right here pertain to the U.S. political spectrum not to the political spectrum of the world which is quite different from the U.S. Follow the U.S. election closely and you might see that I'm not confused.
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:32 am    Post subject: It seems no one wants to reply to my previous posts......... Reply with quote

To everyone on this forum. It seems once someone comes into this forum with a different take on issues people will reply once and then stop the discourse. The old saying goes " If you can't compete go silent". I know my political take on things is not welcomed here, but I will continue to give my observations on the U.S. election as it draws near. Just my own observation the members of this forum, better get used to a rightward turn in the U.S. The left according to the rules in the U.S. had their chance and blew it big time.

I'll go out on a short limb here and predict a good electoral victory for Romney and that the Republicans will take the Senate and increase their majority in the House. You see by nature the majority of Americans are either right of center or directly in the center left of center doesn't sell very well in the U.S. people understand what Freedom and Liberty mean and government is at best an impediment to Liberty and Freedom. Again I invite replies, if anyone wants to continue the discussion not end it with silence. My use of left and right here of course pertains to the U.S. political spectrum.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: It seems no one wants to reply to my previous posts..... Reply with quote

disraeli123 wrote:
The left according to the rules in the U.S. had their chance and blew it big time.



Correction. The left never HAD it in the US. Obama is NOT a leftist by any stretch of the imagination. You might say he is a leftist by US rules, whatever that means, but you can't change the political spectrum, it is what it is, and Obama does NOT fall anywhere near the left, in the way, say, Gandhi or Nelson Mandela would.
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EFLeducator



Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: I get where your coming from, but I think Mexico can be. Reply with quote

disraeli123 wrote:
I like it here in Mexico and I intend to live here for awhile.


Laughing

Make sure you have some savings for those times that you'll have to pay rent and the place you're working at has not paid you on time or they have not paid you the full amount owed you.

That happens a LOT in Mexico City, but if you're in another location then you might be spared that terrible ordeal.

Welcome to the EXCITING world of TEFLing my fellow professional TEFLer! Twisted Evil
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disraeli123



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 143
Location: San Luis Potosi, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:53 am    Post subject: BBB you may have gotten the idea............................ Reply with quote

BBB, I would not argue with you about the general political spectrum of planet earth. The real left in this world along with the extreme right has done too many horrible things if there allowed to do so. Look at Stalin on the left along with Robert Mugabe and Hitler and Mussolini on the right.

The founders of the U.S. put protections in place which were intended to stop the spectrum from wandering to far from the middle on either side of the spectrum. This was intended also to restrict politicians from being able to use too much of the public purse to buy votes. This gives the U.S. a very short, but deeply held political spectrum. Just as examples Nancy Pelosi is actually outside of the bounds of the U.S. spectrum that is why she lost the speakers position. On the right Orrin Hatch of Utah is as right as you can be and stay with the U.S. spectrum.

The founders also created the freedom of speech to reveal people who were to extreme, so the people would know who to vote against. The separation of powers and the other devices within the U.S. Constitution were designed to slow the political process down, so people could think things out and to stop bad laws from happening. Well, I hope we continue the dialogue it is interesting and useful.
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