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What is Middle Class in Mexico?
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isla Guapa wrote:


Sounds great. Too bad I can't get one of those INFONAVIT mortgages Sad .


No reason why you can't, if you want to go back to work for a few years.
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Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadBeagleBad wrote:
Isla Guapa wrote:


Sounds great. Too bad I can't get one of those INFONAVIT mortgages Sad .


No reason why you can't, if you want to go back to work for a few years.


Work where?
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isla Guapa wrote:
BadBeagleBad wrote:
Isla Guapa wrote:


Sounds great. Too bad I can't get one of those INFONAVIT mortgages Sad .


No reason why you can't, if you want to go back to work for a few years.


Work where?


Pretty much anywhere that offers you benefits.
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Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadBeagleBad wrote:
Isla Guapa wrote:
BadBeagleBad wrote:
Isla Guapa wrote:


Sounds great. Too bad I can't get one of those INFONAVIT mortgages Sad .


No reason why you can't, if you want to go back to work for a few years.


Work where?


Pretty much anywhere that offers you benefits.


Working part time for a language school teaching business classes isn't going to give you benefits, I fear.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isla Guapa wrote:


Working part time for a language school teaching business classes isn't going to give you benefits, I fear.


If you work more than 19 hours a week it is required by law.
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Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadBeagleBad wrote:
Isla Guapa wrote:


Working part time for a language school teaching business classes isn't going to give you benefits, I fear.


If you work more than 19 hours a week it is required by law.


That's interesting. I would guess that many schools give you a maximum of 19 hours a week to avoid paying benefits, or am I being a bit cynical?
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Phil_K



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 1820
Location: A World of my Own

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isla Guapa wrote:
BadBeagleBad wrote:
Isla Guapa wrote:


Working part time for a language school teaching business classes isn't going to give you benefits, I fear.


If you work more than 19 hours a week it is required by law.


That's interesting. I would guess that many schools give you a maximum of 19 hours a week to avoid paying benefits, or am I being a bit cynical?


I'm not sure that that is strictly true. If you work for a language school, you usually work by honorarios, and are therefore self employed, and not entitled to benefits. As far as I know you can work as many hours as you like with honorarios.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil_K wrote:


I'm not sure that that is strictly true. If you work for a language school, you usually work by honorarios, and are therefore self employed, and not entitled to benefits. As far as I know you can work as many hours as you like with honorarios.


It is not strictly legal for a school to do that, either, but people don't know any better and just accept it. But, you are right that unless you are an employee of the school you are not entitled to benefits.

And, yes, I suspect that you are correct about having teaching work fewer than 19 hours so they don't have to pay benefits.

If working on rebibos you are not an employee.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2008
Location: Paradise, Paradise, Paradise!

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadBeagleBad wrote:
I think in the US it is less economic and more education that determines if you are middle class, but not so much in Mexico, where a taco vendor can make more than a teacher (and often does).


1. Disagree about the comparison between Mexico and the USA.

In the States, if a blue-collar worker makes $60,000 a year, they are middle class, no questions asked. In Mexico, a person doing the same job, even if they could make good money, would not be viewed by society as middle class. In Latin America class has a lot more to do with education, background, family, even the way you dress and your manner of speech than it does with income/money. Thus, a teacher, even a poor one, is often viewed as middle class whilst a taco vendor, even with a better income, is still viewed as less than the teacher, income differences aside.

2. No surprise that taco vendors make more than teachers, with EFL salaries often around $6,000 pesos per month, many jobs pay more than professional TEFL'ers make.

Of course, there are some rare exceptions, a few EFL teachers do manage to make more than $10,000 pesos per month, again, that is rarely constant.


Last edited by Prof.Gringo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2008
Location: Paradise, Paradise, Paradise!

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EFLeducator wrote:
Enchilada Potosina wrote:
EFLeducator wrote:
Dragonlady wrote:
In a country where almost 50% of the population is living in poverty, and another 10% is living in extreme poverty, where is there room for a middle class?


Great insight and a great question my fellow TEFLer.

The Mexican middle class is the 30% that live in the US.


Excellent point EP. Excellent.


Laughing Razz Laughing
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EFLeducator



Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prof.Gringo wrote:
BadBeagleBad wrote:
I think in the US it is less economic and more education that determines if you are middle class, but not so much in Mexico, where a taco vendor can make more than a teacher (and often does).


1. Disagree about the comparison between Mexico and the USA.

In the States, if a blue-collar worker makes $60,000 a year, they are middle class, no questions asked. In Mexico, a person doing the same job, even if they could make good money, would not be viewed by society as middle class. In Latin America class has a lot more to do with education, background, family, even the way you dress and your manner of speech than it does with income/money. Thus, a teacher, even a poor one, is often viewed as middle class whilst a taco vendor, even with a better income, is still viewed as less than the teacher, income differences aside.

2. No surprise that taco vendors make more than teachers, with EFL salaries often around $6,000 pesos per month, many jobs pay more than professional TEFL'ers make.

Of course, there are some rare exceptions, a few EFL teachers do manage to make more than $10,000 pesos per month, again, that is rarely constant.


Right!!! Rarely constant! GREAT insight Prof. Gringo! Cool
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2008
Location: Paradise, Paradise, Paradise!

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadBeagleBad wrote:
Isla Guapa wrote:
BadBeagleBad wrote:
Isla Guapa wrote:


Sounds great. Too bad I can't get one of those INFONAVIT mortgages Sad .


No reason why you can't, if you want to go back to work for a few years.


Work where?


Pretty much anywhere that offers you benefits.


That pretty much leaves out the majority of language mills and so-called biz EFL "schools" (sorry folks, a biz card and a prepaid cell phone doesn't make you a so-called "school owner").

And then you have the colegios, which might not rehire you for the next semester (why keep a teacher and have to pay more benefits) or they do like the Tec De Mty does and you have to sign a new contract every few months.

Perhaps being a CSR at an English speaking call center is a good option? At least the work is stable and you get all of your benefits under the law. Nothing beats working 10 hours a day, 6 days a week for $40 pesos an hour. Career move! Maybe with 3-5 years in, one can apply for promotion to senior CSR agent or even a low level admin position... The sky is the limit! Rolling Eyes
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Phil_K



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 1820
Location: A World of my Own

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole business of "class" in general makes me smile.

There are a lot people that fit the profile of the middle class: House, car, job, salary, family, appearance, etc, that definitely lack "class".

I always say that we belong to the class that we aspire to. Some people are unashamedly working class, despite all the evidence to the contrary, and many people on very modest incomes, with few material goods, are cultured, willing to learn and experiment and, for me, belong to the middle class.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil_K wrote:



I always say that we belong to the class that we aspire to. Some people are unashamedly working class, despite all the evidence to the contrary, and many people on very modest incomes, with few material goods, are cultured, willing to learn and experiment and, for me, belong to the middle class.


Yeah, that was more than I was driving at, and would be my definition as well. I know lots of people who could earn more if they wanted to, but chose to work less and live more.
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Dragonlady



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 716
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'm going to be sick to my stomach...

Quote:
As elsewhere, "middle class" is largely a state of mind in Mexico, a nation of 112 million people that is home to the world's richest man and to tens of millions who still struggle to find enough to eat.

Some define middle class here to cover people making more than $10 a day. Others say it applies to people who have cars, cable TV and some education. Whatever it is, many Mexicans say they're part of it.

"I am convinced that Mexico today is mostly a middle class country, but this doesn't mean that there are no poor people," said Luis de la Calle, an economist and former commerce undersecretary. "If they consider themselves to be middle class, well, who are we to tell them they're not? Being middle class is a question of attitude."

Olivo, who earns five figures a month and lives in Mexico City's upscale Pedregal neighborhood, considers himself middle class.

So does Mauricio Hernandez, who says he makes an average of about $1,400 a month from his used car lot in Naucalpan, a suburb of some 800,000 people on the edge of Mexico City. It's also part of the state that Pena Nieto governed.

Like many his age, the 62-year-old Hernandez has always backed the PRI and he considers Pena Nieto "a hard-working man" who has had "good achievements and has been able to project them and make them work."

Read more here: http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2012/06/27/2580665/middle-class-will-be-key-in-mexico.html#storylink=cpy

DL
Tiny Tim should have said, "God help us, every one!"
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