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Gay people
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whatevs



Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Gay people Reply with quote

Where is a good place to travel to and teach if you are gay? specifically as in my case, a gay female. I got a good offer in the middle east but then I realized it would be insane for me to go there. I was thinking about Taiwan but the market does not seem to be good (low demand?). Lots of opportunities In Korea I guess but I don't feel a strong interest in that culture, with all due respect.

I'm not in a rush to decide. Have a good summer school job, and the chance to renew for the fall at the place where I am now. But I feel it's time for a change. Any gay people out there feeling safe and blending in more or less, or friends of gays too Smile Thank u
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ancient_dweller



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 415
Location: Woodland Bench

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sydney
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thailand's pretty open
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tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on YOUR qualifications, country of passport and what you want to do.

Thailand is pretty open but at the entry level in EFL the wages are not very good (especially compared to the ME). She also just missed the peak hiring period (mid March to mid May for (decent) k-12 schools and uni positions).

The more westernized cities in China are an option (Beijing, Shanghai).

Taiwan, unless she is a certified teacher, only has openings in the buxibans (language centers). Pay is about the same as entry level in Korea without the housing and airfare. If she is certified as a teacher then Taiwan, HK are decent choices.

If she qualifies for JET then Japan may well be worth a look.

Korea is what it is (there is an active gay scene) but further discussion needs to be taken to the Korean boards.

In ALL cases you need to be discrete. Even Thailand, for all its openness, for purposes of employment in the education system, still discriminates against GLBT.

.
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hippocampus



Joined: 27 Feb 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Bikini Bottom

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you be gay? Have you ever heard it said: every woman in the world is two drinks away from a same-sex encounter? And if you don't like men, well, I 'm with you on that one. Icky poo!

Once I asked my students to divide themselves into two teams. Being naughty teenagers they shouted: MOD EDIT and lesbians!

So, I said, all right, I'm on the lesbian team!
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there was ever a country that was set up for encouraging gay activity, KSA is the place. Although Saudi Arabia is not for the faint of heart, oddly enough, despite the fact that the country has strict religous laws against homosexuality- the strict segregation of men and women makes it somewhat easier for gay men and women. You would probably have an easier time meeting like minded women since you would be spending most, if not all your time in the company of women and most likely never have to speak to a man the whole time you are in the country with the possible exception of course when out shopping or airport security coming and going. Of course you would still have to contend with the male population in some minor form or other, but certainly less so than in other countries. KSA's out ward appearance is an extremely religous one, but I suspect what goes on behind many a closed door is another situation entirely...nevertheless, I would advise you to keep your sexual orientation discreet, if you want to work in KSA. If you do consider KSA as an option be sure to choose your employer very carefully as where you work will have an impact on everything else.
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whatevs



Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmp45 wrote:
If there was ever a country that was set up for encouraging gay activity, KSA is the place. Although Saudi Arabia is not for the faint of heart, oddly enough, despite the fact that the country has strict religous laws against homosexuality- the strict segregation of men and women makes it somewhat easier for gay men and women. You would probably have an easier time meeting like minded women since you would be spending most, if not all your time in the company of women and most likely never have to speak to a man the whole time you are in the country with the possible exception of course when out shopping or airport security coming and going. Of course you would still have to contend with the male population in some minor form or other, but certainly less so than in other countries. KSA's out ward appearance is an extremely religous one, but I suspect what goes on behind many a closed door is another situation entirely...nevertheless, I would advise you to keep your sexual orientation discreet, if you want to work in KSA. If you do consider KSA as an option be sure to choose your employer very carefully as where you work will have an impact on everything else.


Yes I've been reading about this lately. Pretty interesting to say the least...Apparently there is essentially nonstop secret gay activity going on there. Totes ironic or what?
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whatevs



Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tttompatz wrote:
Depends on YOUR qualifications, country of passport and what you want to do.

Thailand is pretty open but at the entry level in EFL the wages are not very good (especially compared to the ME). She also just missed the peak hiring period (mid March to mid May for (decent) k-12 schools and uni positions).

The more westernized cities in China are an option (Beijing, Shanghai).

Taiwan, unless she is a certified teacher, only has openings in the buxibans (language centers). Pay is about the same as entry level in Korea without the housing and airfare. If she is certified as a teacher then Taiwan, HK are decent choices.

If she qualifies for JET then Japan may well be worth a look.

Korea is what it is (there is an active gay scene) but further discussion needs to be taken to the Korean boards.

In ALL cases you need to be discrete. Even Thailand, for all its openness, for purposes of employment in the education system, still discriminates against GLBT.

.


thank you, this is helpful. Thank you to everyone actually.

Of course believe me, I understand the importance of discretion wherever I may be or go. Thailand does appeal to me.

As for Japan I just think of the suicidal Japanese gay exchange student I knew in college. Can you have a vicarious grudge against a place? If so i have that for Japan.

Korea: I take it the gay scene is very underground. i've been communicating with an old friend who says it was the first time he ever felt such in tense gay shame in his life, living there and trying to get to know people. (He is not gay but a lot of gay people in his family including parents, brother, etc.
He tried to be open about it and it backfired on him Sad

China maybe. It's so big there has to be worlds within worlds there.

I will keep exploring ideas. Good responses, I appreciate it
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whatevs wrote:




He tried to be open about it and it backfired on him Sad



Why did he bring it up at all? What possible English language learning aim could this have been related to?
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whatevs



Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
whatevs wrote:




He tried to be open about it and it backfired on him Sad



Why did he bring it up at all? What possible English language learning aim could this have been related to?


I"ll try to help you here. Are teachers teaching every moment that they are inhabiting space abroad? are "English learning aims" the focus of every waking interaction a person has? No and no.

Do people sometimes form close relationships with their colleagues? Do colleagues and bosses have a lot of curiosity about visiting teachers? Do their questions sometimes border on a little invasive but maybe you answer anyway taking a small leap of faith because you have built up good times and good memories and good feelings together? Yes, yes, and yes. Read on.

Do people get to know each other and reveal details of their personal lives such as anecdotes about childhood or photos of special family occasions as a natural process of working in a small work setting for extended amounts of time? Also yes.

Do we sometimes trust people who turn out to not be trustworthy? Is indoctrination of homophobia so profound that even good people who can be relied on in almost any other way feel utter terror (not exaggerating-- it does provoke literal terror in some people) to know suddenly that they are sitting next to someone who might "be a homo" or otherwise force them to acknoweledge the existence of gays in the world? And might this person, in their fear immaturity and confusion push away from or gossip about or do other actions that could cause professional and personal harm to someone who was the perceived cause of aforementioned terror? Again, yes, yes, and yes.

In other words are there any other assumptions or pathways of thought a person could make other than that the person I mentioned was unwise or unprofessional, which are inferred by your take on it?

Any other questions, children?
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear, oh dear. I rather assumed you meant in the classroom, where such topics and discussions frequently backfire. This is a teachers' forum after all.

But thanks for your help in clarifying.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11525
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do people sometimes form close relationships with their colleagues? Do colleagues and bosses have a lot of curiosity about visiting teachers? Do their questions sometimes border on a little invasive but maybe you answer anyway taking a small leap of faith because you have built up good times and good memories and good feelings together? Yes, yes, and yes.


Even in the teachers' room with colleagues, I think it's always by far the best to be very careful with personal information. Cultural sensitivity is something that we as 'foreigners' really need to keep in the forefront of our minds as we navigate relationships, particularly working relationships.

With work colleagues, sharing work-related experiences and feelings and etc is one thing, but it's always (even in ones' home country) going out on a limb to share more personal stuff.

I know people who've shared their sexual orientation issues with work colleagues in their home countries, and suffered negative consequences. This is even more likely going to be the outcome of sharing outside of ones own culture. It's often just too difficult to anticipate what the reaction will be.

Just not recommended. It's not a 'small leap of faith,' but a risk with potentially serious repercussions.
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whatevs



Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
Quote:
Do people sometimes form close relationships with their colleagues? Do colleagues and bosses have a lot of curiosity about visiting teachers? Do their questions sometimes border on a little invasive but maybe you answer anyway taking a small leap of faith because you have built up good times and good memories and good feelings together? Yes, yes, and yes.


Even in the teachers' room with colleagues, I think it's always by far the best to be very careful with personal information. Cultural sensitivity is something that we as 'foreigners' really need to keep in the forefront of our minds as we navigate relationships, particularly working relationships.

With work colleagues, sharing work-related experiences and feelings and etc is one thing, but it's always (even in ones' home country) going out on a limb to share more personal stuff.

I know people who've shared their sexual orientation issues with work colleagues in their home countries, and suffered negative consequences. This is even more likely going to be the outcome of sharing outside of ones own culture. It's often just too difficult to anticipate what the reaction will be.

Just not recommended. It's not a 'small leap of faith,' but a risk with potentially serious repercussions.


Somethings are easy to be discrete about. Somethings require constant vigilance. Speaking from experience the constant vigilance and fear of hiding the truth about my sexuality, it is exhausting. and inhumane. As for my friend he grew up in SanFran, and had never been gayshamed before in his life. Opposite in fact. He's an extremely socially sophisticated person though, and it's not like he went in there wearing a t-shirt that said MY GAYS DADS WENT ON ROSIE ODONNELL'S GAY FAMILY CRUISE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS T-SHIRT. Your advice is naive and victim blaming. though I"m sure you don't mean it that way. you just don't know the full circumstances. he thought he was safe, liked, and around friends who were genuinely open to hearing about different ways of life and the reality beyond their daily lives. It's always a risk being gay or from a gay family. Hiding the truth about who you are day in and day out is so exhausting you can't imagine, if you've never had to do it. And hindsight is always 20/20 anyway. Sometimes you reveail it and you get the best ally ever, it sets you free and restores your faith in humanity. Anyway you don't know the full circumstances but I hope you felt better after writing that hypothetically obvious puristic advice.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd suggest re-evaluating your decision to pursue your career in TEFL abroad. You'll likely be faced with all sorts of genuine discrimination and perplexing cultural differences and taboos. If you find some of the posts here and attitudes therein difficult to deal with, well, then...

Best of luck.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11525
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
hypothetically obvious puristic advice


I'm not even sure what this means, exactly.

But my point is that revealing sensitive and possibly controversial personal information in a work setting is always risky. When one is talking about teachers, who are often presumed to have some influence over students, the risks are even greater. Add in cultural differences, and it's very likely to be a recipe for disaster.

I'd suggest that keeping not only the classroom but also the entire work environment free of issues surrounding sexuality is always the best policy. You could also equate this with the issues of dating students and co-workers or bosses - also generally to be avoided. Mixing personal and work life isn't always a recipe for disaster - but it very often is. Much better to build a social network well outside of work.

Sasha makes a good point - if you really need to be up front about your sexuality, you are facing risks most everywhere you go.
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