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Making the bus monitor cry
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 2731
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Making the bus monitor cry Reply with quote

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/22/karen-klein-bullying-video-residents

Fuller clips are available on YouTube.

I agree with some of the comments on the Guardian saying that elderly passive people shouldn't really be doing this kind of work, but for all I know it might've been a low- or even unpaid voluntary position.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12865
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear fluffyhamster,

School bus drivers are seldom (if ever) "voluntary" positions (although I suppose there might be a few doing it in private schools). However, it is a very low-paid (often minimum wage) job, and the driver here was working for a public school.

Personally, I doubt that kids today are any "meaner" than they have ever been, but thanks to technology, we can now get to see more evidence of such meanness.

Maybe the saddest part of the story is this:

"But in an era when antics can go from schoolbus to international audience in a matter of minutes, the children's names and addresses have aready been published, while they have witnessed international condemnation of their parents and received thousands of threats of violence."

Duh - it's amazing, isn't it, that those issuing such "threats" don't even see the irony?

Regards,
John
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9603
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat:

The poor lady wasn't a school bus driver - she was a school bus monitor.
Some new invention, and certainly very poorly-paid, if it's paid at all.

I wonder what the job description for a monitor is, but for certain it doesn't include taking crap from middle-school bullies!!

Best,
spiral
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12865
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear spiral78,

You're quite right - my mistake,. Well, actually my and the Wall Street Journal's mistake:

"Taunted NY bus driver doesn't want bullies charged"

Very Happy

http://online.wsj.com/article/AP96e4beca84644d889c6d90af8ecdefc4.html#articleTabs%3Dcomments

And yes - monitors are not well paid:

"Salary
As of 2010, the U.S. national average annual salary of a school bus monitor is $26,699, according to CBSalary.com."


http://www.ehow.com/about_6674120_bus-monitor-job-description.html#ixzz1yd8Gi0M4

Regards,
John
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 2731
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The threats of violence against the kids are indeed silly and counterproductive. And the "sticks and stones" we tell children to toughen them to taunting should apply even moreso to adults - if you work with kids, you need to be able to suck it up a bit (I mean, you can't always nip it in the bud before anything hurtful gets uttered). That being said, the taunting in this instance was excessive and sustained, and I don't really know what the woman could've really done to stop it (me, I'd've been a mix of disappointed, irritated, and slightly angry, and perhaps shown it more) other than preempt it by engaging with the horrid blighters (assuming they'd be up for talking at all civilly to her); and doubtless her feelings were hurt (as there's another slightly earlier Guardian piece, just the video with "blurb" really, that informs us that her son had actually taken his own life 10 years before), re. one of the kids saying that if they were her family they'd kill themselves. So giving the kids too easy a ride (excuse the pun) would be tough in this case.
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 516

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the kids were behaving awfully and should be punished accordingly but...
If the woman is a monitor, she should have shut down the threats immediately using whatever methods are appropriate. At my current job I ride the school bus coming and going to the school and "monitor" the kids. While they never make remarks about me personally, they do argue and sometimes engage one another inappropriately. It is necessary to confront them and threaten some sort of consequence at times whether it be telephone calls to parents, telling the director of the school etc. I can't imagine just sitting by and taking the abuse, granted I'm a larger-sized youngish guy but maybe that says something about who should be doing these types of jobs
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12865
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which (for me) raises the question of what was the driver doing all this time.

He/she certainly must have seen/heard what was going on, and, in my opinion, should have pulled the bus over to the side of the road and intervened.

Regards,
John

P.S. On the other hand, had he/she done so, the monitor would probably not be half a million dollars richer right now Very Happy
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 2731
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all that cash she could maybe set up a Center for Bullying Children (and/or Bullied Adults). Smile
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12865
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear fliffyhamster,

Well, at any rate, I suspect she'll be giving up her day job Very Happy.

Notice: Bus monitor position open in Greece, NY.

Regards,
John
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting quote from "Renlentless" (one of the commentators online)
Quote:
For those judging the monitor on this, don't forget she had a camera pointed at her this whole time. I'm sure she was well aware of this, and maybe she didn't know exactly how to handle that. If she did anything it could easily be turned against her. The school probably gave her zero authority and she's there for mainly the safety of the children.


I think that’s the key issue: not having any authority with the kids (and probably not knowing their names, etc.). You don’t just get that from being an adult. There’s a very big difference between being an established teacher who is also acting as a ‘bus monitor’ and someone employed just as a monitor. Teachers may initially have a battle establishing authority, too, but at least they have the school environment to back them up - hopefully.

On one short-term stint in a high school in the U.K., I knew it wasn’t going to be an easy environment but the teaching agency deliberately omitted to tell me the school was officially about to go into ‘special measures’ status. (I knew what that term meant). I managed to get my own classes under some sort of control, but dreaded being made to sub for other classes where I had no established ‘authority’, especially as such a new teacher. There were a lot of teacher absences.

I had a few memorable subbing experiences, but one in particular stands out: a Year 11 class (15 year olds). The moment I walked in food was thrown, followed by chairs and desks – (the latter at each other). I called for the office for ‘back-up’ on my mobile (you never knew if they would actually come) and waited very calmly. The ringleaders were removed and we carried on. Later that day, I saw the same ringleaders – out of uniform – at the bus stop. As a teacher in the UK, you really need a car; you don’t want to be on the same public transport as students. Nothing was said to me but when the bus came, I got on (with relief) and then these kids suddenly began verbally abusing the bus driver who slammed the doors shut. Officially, as a teacher, I should have intervened but it wouldn’t have helped at all. Those kids could behave anyway they liked but even if removed from the class, they’d be back the following lesson with no consequences. That was the main problem in this school – no proper systems in place. I was also weary after days of my own battles.

In this case, I suspect the bus driver, had he or she heard, might’ve been too intimidated to get involved and perhaps become a later target, which I can understand. This was a vicious personal attack and that kind are always the hardest to deal with. The idea that 'passive' older adults naturally have no authority - and therefore will get not respect - is a worry. This attacking pack mentality amongst kids can and does take place outside of schools. They may grow out of it but not all do.
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 920
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear fluffyhamster,

School bus drivers are seldom (if ever) "voluntary" positions (although I suppose there might be a few doing it in private schools). However, it is a very low-paid (often minimum wage) job, and the driver here was working for a public school.

Personally, I doubt that kids today are any "meaner" than they have ever been, but thanks to technology, we can now get to see more evidence of such meanness.

Maybe the saddest part of the story is this:

"But in an era when antics can go from schoolbus to international audience in a matter of minutes, the children's names and addresses have aready been published, while they have witnessed international condemnation of their parents and received thousands of threats of violence."

Duh - it's amazing, isn't it, that those issuing such "threats" don't even see the irony?

Regards,
John


Not that ironic in my opinon. The poor lady was siting on the bus minding her own business when they kids started saying they would pee on her, *beep* on her and *beep* in her mouth and stab her in the belly so those kids are the ones who have been picking on a victim so if someone threatens them with a bit of corporal punishment it is because they deserved it but she didn't deserve it that's the difference. Cool
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12865
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Cool Teacher,

Ah, I see. Beating up the kids would be sure to teach them that violence is not the right way to behave.

Regards,
John
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 920
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear Cool Teacher,

Ah, I see. Beating up the kids would be sure to teach them that violence is not the right way to behave.

Regards,
John


No, it teachers them there are serius consequences for bad behaviour. Wink

When I was younger my parents certainly smacked me and so did my teachers for being rude, not respecting my elders, shouting, using bad language etc... and it didn't do any harm to me. I think these children have been spoiled but a strong hand early in life would have stopped them behaving this way. I really think this. Cool
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12865
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Cool Teacher,

I'm glad it worked with you, but that doesn't mean either that it will work with everyone or that there aren't better methods.

In the interests of being "fair and balanced", here are some pros and cons:

Reasons Supporting Corporal Punishment
Deterrent: Corporal punishment is usually an effective behavior deterrent.
Compliance: Increases immediate short-term compliance.
Cost: With little or no cost, corporal punishment is affordable to everyone.
Quick: Corporal punishment is both quick and saves time, therefore allowing both parties to return to their tasks (such as a child returning to the classroom to resume learning).
Right/Wrong: Corporal punishment definitely teaches both right and wrong.

Reasons Against Corporal Punishment
Self Esteem: Corporal punishment can lower self esteem to both the punisher and punishee, and may have longer term psychological impact too.
Unnecessary: There are other means of education that are effective too. A common alternative is to educate why the action was wrong to the point of invoking empathy or shame.
Hostility: Those people receiving punishment are more like to be instilled with rage and hostility even into adulthood.
Violence: Are you familiar with the old adage: "monkey see, monkey do"? Well, corporal punishment trains children to be violent to other children and educates them that it is an acceptable means of education. This will carry on into adulthood too.
Child Abuse: For corporal punishment to typically continue working, more punishment, pain, or force maybe be necessary. As a result, child abuse typically starts as corporal punishment.


http://www.philforhumanity.com/Corporal_Punishment.html

One other thing I'd like to mention is that in the article it wasn't talking about parents using corporal punishment with their children:

"But in an era when antics can go from schoolbus to international audience in a matter of minutes, the children's names and addresses have aready been published, while they have witnessed international condemnation of their parents and received thousands of threats of violence."

That's violence (and although it doesn't say how violent, my guess is that at least some of the threats were likely fairly extreme) from complete strangers.

Regards,
John
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 920
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think that depends. Cool

I think that behaviour was so bad. Sad

Another argument could be that childrne will not use violent words like this if taught early enought not to do it but they get spoilt after some time then no amoung of corporal punishment can change it maybe, Confused Or even talking to them and explaining what they did wrong. What if they don't listen and instead they threaten you wiht a knife or sexual assault like they did with this poor lady. Shocked
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