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What is the first concrete step towards getting a job?
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm at a uni and we are off on National holidays


Are you paid for the months you don't teach? In my contract, it is 10 months, they don't pay for the 11th and 12th month. At a language school, I would be paid 12 months at a higher salary.

Should a typical Z visa teacher working on campus at a university be paid for 12 months?


Quote:
I take exception to the comment about not much vacation time.


You can take my exception. Please answer the above comment.
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mcloo7



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Hangzhou

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they hire as many teachers for the spring semester as they do for the fall? When is hiring season for spring?

Thanks for your responses.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2606
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As most state/provincial unis and colleges hire for the academic year starting in early Sept, it follows that there are fewer jobs in this sector at the start of the spring semester.
There are some and these will start to be advertised say January.
These spring vacancies arise through dud schools not getting the teachers they want back in Sept. Also non-performing teachers being let go and of course the 'runners'. Enrollment of additional students for the spring semester could also mean demand.
You may get a full year contract in Feb, but if it is just one semester ie Feb to July, make sure it is clearly spelled out what portion of airfare or other allowances you are entitled to.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4934
Location: Blabbing

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lobster wrote:

You don't want to focus on things you can't change or are beyond your control. As well, it's not really true.


Biggest load of biased hooey I have read in all my 10+ years on this forum. Don't let other people down and/or hurt their chances at securing fair employment simply because you have some personal issues with members of the forum.

The fact is, it is common knowledge that schools in China do discriminate and choose looks over qualifications. I state this based on personal experience, the experiences of hundreds of other on this forums, and by advertisements such as this: "No experience? No problem! We are looking for young, energetic, white (sorry) native English speakers..."

Some here with vested interests need to put personal issues away and focus on facts, not personalities...

Quote:
As you can see, not everyone can make it here.


Personal slap noted.

I certainly can make it here, thank you very much. I "made it here" for the last decade. Again, the attacks on me are getting old. Don't like what I say? focus on the facts, prove me wrong, and stop picking on me, it looks boorish and petty. Message rather than the messenger. Stop writing like a protectionist fenqqi recruiter for crying out loud...

Quote:
There is no honor is working 12 months when both you and the employer want to quit midway. There is no honor in continuing a monkey show when you were intending on actually teaching English.


This exactly.

If you let schools walk all over you, they certainly will. Schools are notorious for bending/breaking contracts or trying to get you to change it mid-stream. A few examples on this very forum popped up just last week.

Not to say that there are not decent jobs in China, but they are coveted. Check, re-check, and confirm any offer. Talk to past teachers. If schools are unwilling to provide contact information, walk away.

Google. Ask others. Find out.

Don't get stuck in a terrible position so far away from home when you suddenly find out that you have a slovenly roommate forced upon you or double the workload and have to entertain some drunkard as his pet foreigner (in the guise some English corner)....

Finally, think about where advice comes from. A recruiter or someone with vested interests in bringing you here will say whatever they can like a user car saleserson in order to get you to sign on the dotted line. It's cash for them or their industry.

I hope to warn people about the potential dangers and pitfalls that occur when coming to China to teach. Like a warning label, teachers need to know in order to make an informed decision. If I knew what I knew now, I probably would not have wasted my time going to where I went in China, opting instead for an international school or partnership university of sorts.

Good luck in whatever you decide.
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biased hooey? How about a different viewpoint? We know you hate this place but try to recognize that others don't have the same issues you seem to have. The fact is you're far more likely to be victim of age or "looks" discrimination in countries other than China when it comes to ESL job hunting. University jobs in this country are full of people over the age of 40, 50, and 60 and none of the people I've come across resemble model material. Relative to other countries in this region experience is valued more in China, privately owned language schools may be an exception to this but universities definitely are not. And not everyone can make it here. Some people recognize that fact and move on. Others remain behind in a miserable state. I feel sorry for those people.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4934
Location: Blabbing

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Javelin of Radiance wrote:
The fact is you're far more likely to be victim of age or "looks" discrimination in countries other than China when it comes to ESL job hunting.


Fact? Where'd this fact come from? Experience? Seems our experiences are vastly different...

Quote:
try to recognize that others don't have the same issues you seem to have.


I do recognize this. But the pro-Sinophile crowd should also realize that this land is not the land of milk and honey it was a decade ago. Nor is everyone immune from being abused and taken advantage of. Bad things don't happen; no need to keep your heads in the sand and pretend everything is perfect.

Quote:
University jobs in this country are full of people over the age of 40, 50, and 60


Sure they are. But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it would only take one 22 year-old FOB college grad to apply for said position and willing to work a bit less. Odds are that older teacher will find some excuse given to them as to why he/she is not needed for next semester.
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Ariadne



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chinatimes... re vacation pay. My university has an 11 month contract so all the FTs get paid for 11. Most years classes and tests are finished by the end of June or the first week in July. If teachers sign up for the next year they also get paid for August. This is not the case with all unis. I worked for two others that paid 10 months like yours, but they did allow teachers to stay in campus housing over the summer. Pay at all the universities has been per month according to the salary listed in the contract. Anytime the students are out of school (holidays, Spring Festival, summer) the FTs are off too, except for a few days at the end of term for giving and grading exams and entering grades.

.
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Lobster



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can also speak from personal experience. Where I work we have 3 teachers over 50 and one black teacher. We've had several applicants of the young, energetic white variety. They didn't replace us because they can't teach very well. Maybe kindergartens prefer the young folks, but there are many more opportunities here.

Why should people get defeatist about things they can't change. What do you suggest they do? Not apply because they're older, fatter or not so attractive? This has nothing do to with a personal issue. It's just bad advice. OK, maybe there is discrimination. No, not maybe, there is. So what? It's one of the things you have to get past to make your place here. If people like like you and me can make it here, why can't they?

Certainly people who know the pitfalls are less likely to fall into them. A few good horror stories can help others. Going to an extreme of heaven or hell doesn't really help.

RED
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Flip-Flopper



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So most college teachers in China are in the older crowd? I don't fancy teaching kindergarten all that much. From what I've seen colleges pay low so that is a double whammy for me. I have an offer at an international school in a city I've never even heard about and the pay is lower than I expected. Should I be looking at somewhere else? I'm really starting to think so.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2606
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flip-Flopper wrote:
So most college teachers in China are in the older crowd? I don't fancy teaching kindergarten all that much. From what I've seen colleges pay low so that is a double whammy for me. I have an offer at an international school in a city I've never even heard about and the pay is lower than I expected. Should I be looking at somewhere else? I'm really starting to think so.


I don't think you can draw that conclusion ie the teachers in PRC are an 'older crowd'.
They are a mixture and the take home message is don't be defeatist if you are an older job seeker.
People who have an education-related degree, some subject experience AND ARE REGISTERED in their home country should look at the international school sector.
A reasonable description of an international school would be a good sprinkling of expat students, subjects taught in English - not necessarily exclusively and some type of Western syllabus ie international baccalaureate. They are also likely to provide education from new entrants to high school.
As to salaries I have no recent information, but they will definitely pay higher than the bog standard 4500-5500RMB pm uni Oral English gig.
Whether 'higher' is sufficient is for you to decide.
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mcloo7



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Hangzhou

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At some places, such as an international school, do you teach English like it would be taught in an American high school. Meaning, do you teach literature? If so can you pick the authors and books that you read?
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2606
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that level of detail would only come out of detailed conversations with an individual school.
By and large I don't see too many international school teachers on Dave's.
There may be other forums (fora) where they hang out.
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mcloo7



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Hangzhou

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
chinatimes wrote:
Your first job in any country is going to be a stepping stone to something better. Even if it is good, there is better down the road. So, I would plan a first job that I could leave shortly after without too much drama or problems.

In China, there is no severance, no pension, no overtime unless they really use up your contracted hours, and little to no vacation time.

Plan accordingly. A summer job will be intensive and during the hottest time of the year. I would prefer to start at the end of August or from the September school year.


A few issues with this advice, although apologies to prev poster if I've misunderstood his/her intention.
Unless it's so bad as to be unbearable, complete your contract. The initial job should have the least downside, even to the extent of lower pay than another riskier job where you overlook warning signs because it is in a particular city. You want to move on with your release letter and your pay and airfare allowance up-to-date.
If you re-sign for another year in the state/provincial sector you will have 5/6 weeks paid winter holiday plus 2m paid summer holiday.
Note if you take a standard 20 hrs pw contract and your schedule calls for only 16 hours it is likely that overtime will only start after 20 hrs. I have known 22 hour weeks in semester 2 that did not attract overtime as semester 2 schedules were 18 hours ie unders and overs
All low risk state/provincial jobs offered now will be for Sept start.
If you do do a summer gig make sure classrooms and accom have a/c.


When you say state/provincial sector what type of job are you talking about? Public school?
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2606
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry McLoo I missed your post.
Yes that's what I mean.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2606
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS but that also extends up to the unis and vocational (3 year associate degree) colleges.
Usually the school will state on their blurb that they are 'under the control or supervision of the provincial government'.
The nationally rated colleges/universities will state that they answer to a govt ministry.
This area is slowly being tidied up. In the old days government ministries would have their own universities.
They are gradually being put under the education ministry.
I think in some sectors this process is being resisted as the senior people in the ministry are alumnae of the uni and like to keep things as they were when they were at school.
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