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EF Hangzhou
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amisexy



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: EF Hangzhou Reply with quote

Hi,

I've had an interview with EF Hangzhou, and they have offered me a position.
I haven't seen the contract yet, and they said they would send it next week.

The pay is 6500 Yuan for the first three months than 7000 per month. 9000 Yuan flight allowance, plus visa costs, medical insurance and bonuses.

I have seen reviews for this school, though they are quite old. What is it like to work in EF Hangzhou? I have applied to a number of jobs in China and had no reply, but this schools replied straight away, and were desperate for a quick interview. Is this a bad sign? Also, could I try and negotiate a higher wage?
I have a bachelors degree, CELTA, I'm a UK citizen and I am a native speaker. I have over 12 months experience working with children in a paid position part time. I am however newly qualified into TEFL, and couldn't possibly come to China before late September.

Also any general info on Hangzhou?

Also another issue is, what is it like to go from Asia to Europe in TEFL? I would ideally love to do one year in Asia, before returning to Europe to do another few years teaching and see where life takes me. (I have applied for jobs in quite a few countries, and the choice makes it somewhat difficult to choose a country and city to start my career)

Thanks for the help, hopeful newbie! Smile
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Lobster



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no justification for the lower pay for 3 months. Housing provided or allowance given? The pay seems low, but you didn't say how many contact or office hours. Don't let them tell you there's 3 months' probation, as the labor code states:

Quote:
Article 19. If an employment contract has a term of not less than three months but less than one year, the probation period may not exceed one month


RED
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amisexy



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Lobster Smile

Yeah, they do provide accommodation, 'a short distance from our schools'.

I will definitely also bring up the probation period, and reduced pay issue. I thought it was standard practice, so big thumbs up!
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fred13331



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Southern China

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ONLY argument in favour of working in a place like EF is that they pay more, but your branch is not even doing that. 6 to 7 K is easily doable in big city universities these days, some pay a lot more. This is for 14 hours a week, 36 weeks a year alowing vast swathes of free time to supplement your earnings. EF by contrast wants you there 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, evenings, weekends and all. Their only virtue being pay - but that is an illusion, as the usually do not offer accomodation. Yours does offer accom, so they cut your salary by 4,000, and then cut it further for this 'trial'. Hangzhou is a very expensive city. I live in Guangzhou which is comparable, and the wife and i blow thru 6,000 a month on daily living. This is not an issue for me as i am earning plenty, but, on 7,000??? it would be a struggle
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kungfuman



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1398
Location: In My Own Private Idaho

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

China isn't cheap and the salary they offer you is below pay - especially for working 40+ hours a week. Don't think you will be there for only 40 hours a week. Nothing wrong with a probation period but at reduced pay? Hahaha WHY?

Burnout is high in these centers.

A recruiter friend ALWAYS asks to I want to work in a WEB or EF or similiar school.

TURNOVER is high as well.

Warning signs.
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Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having interviewed from jobs in the EU, my experience is that when moving from China back to European jobs, employers often regard you as having 'no experience'.

The teaching environments and the actual role of a teacher in China can be very different to what is required within TEFL in Europe. You can still find jobs in the EU, but the experience in China isnt likely to be worth much UNLESS you work at a place like EF / Wall Street / Pearson Longman etc. Again, this is based on my experience, but from talking to employers in the EU, training centre employers like EF are seen as offering more valuable experience than the university jobs.

No experience or info on EF hangzhuo though, cant help there.
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eihpos



Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I interviewed with them too, but turned it down because the position involved teaching only kids. They do have a corporate department - but not recruiting for it at the moment. My interview was rushed too - and did also get the impression that they are desperate, but I think they are opening a new school in Huzhou (which, I am told is not really Hangzhou at all) so probably want to get teachers for that.

I have a friend/acquaintance who works for them, and is pretty happy. The pay they offered you does seem low though - they base salary on experience and qualifications and you do have some experience. You should ask for at least 7000 to start.
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The Edge



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 455
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: EF Hangzhou Reply with quote

amisexy wrote:
Hi,

I've had an interview with EF Hangzhou, and they have offered me a position.
I haven't seen the contract yet, and they said they would send it next week.

The pay is 6500 Yuan for the first three months than 7000 per month. 9000 Yuan flight allowance, plus visa costs, medical insurance and bonuses.

I have seen reviews for this school, though they are quite old. What is it like to work in EF Hangzhou? I have applied to a number of jobs in China and had no reply, but this schools replied straight away, and were desperate for a quick interview. Is this a bad sign? Also, could I try and negotiate a higher wage?
I have a bachelors degree, CELTA, I'm a UK citizen and I am a native speaker. I have over 12 months experience working with children in a paid position part time. I am however newly qualified into TEFL, and couldn't possibly come to China before late September.

Also any general info on Hangzhou?

Also another issue is, what is it like to go from Asia to Europe in TEFL? I would ideally love to do one year in Asia, before returning to Europe to do another few years teaching and see where life takes me. (I have applied for jobs in quite a few countries, and the choice makes it somewhat difficult to choose a country and city to start my career)

Thanks for the help, hopeful newbie! Smile


You are over qualified for such a gig.
They are taking you for a ride.
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it'snotmyfault



Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 527

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on then guys, give the newbie some advice.

How can somebody applying from abroad, with no TEFL experience, land a good job in China?

Personally I'd recommend going somewhere like Vietnam if you just want to go to Asia for a year. I think you'd have much more fun.
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GeminiTiger



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Location: China, 2005--Present

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your trying to find a job a exactly a month after a majority of jobs begin. Public schools and Universities begin around September 1st, but you want to come late September, bad choice.

So your stuck in a private school. With your background you should be making about 100 rmb an hour after you figure in bonuses and accommodation costs.

Is this job for 30 hours a week? 120 hours a month? that should be about 12,000 rmb (minus 1000-2500 for "accommodation" depending on the quality of it, i suspect it's not good) Also if you have a 9,000 rmb airfare reimbursement you can subtract another -750 per month (this is really dirty math).

Anyways, if the "accommodation" is really nice and you get a big airfare return, you should make about 9000 "starting" in a private school. I suspect with office hours/commute/avtivities your working 40 hours though. Anyways, you had better get 9k at least.
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therock



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it'snotmyfault wrote:
Come on then guys, give the newbie some advice.
.


Ok then, the offer is crap, especially for someone with the qualifications the OP has.
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Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll start this post by saying I don't have personal experience of EF, (well, not EF in China, I have worked at an EF summer school in England waaaay back in 2007), and I don't know the city either.

BUT - I will question the comments that the OP should get far more with her/his qualifications? amisexy - congratulations on recently passing your CELTA, I know many people find it challenging, but you are actually minimally qualified as you yourself admit. Yes, I'm sure there are people in China that start their first ever EFL job with a great salary and a great package, but many people don't, so do take some of the advice with a pinch of salt. It is unrealistic to expect your first job to be the best job you are ever likely to have, especially when you are outside China, have no connections, and no experience.

I would also say that when you consider salary, you do need to look at the overall package, not just the amount per month. Consider working hours, and when these working hours are (working Sundays Vs weekdays . Evenings Vs 9-5 hours etc). Find out about office hours. kungfuman and fred13331 mention working office hours ... find out if this is the case. Despite what most people believe, not all training centres make you work office hours.

I'd also query the type of work and students you will have. Is it just children, is it a mix of children and adults (which means more planning). Do they provide materials and some kind of syllabus? Is there support and mentoring of any kind. Existing employees should be able to answer this.

Travel money / free utilities / holidays / holiday pay are all other things that need to be considered before anyone can really comment on how good or bad the offer is.

Also remember that for many people on this forum, training centres like EF / Wall Street et al have a poor repuation, but if you are considering TEFL work in the EU in the future, do be aware that working in public schools or the university sector may not be well regarded later.
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amisexy



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies. Smile

I have emailed the centre manager who interviewed me and she is yet to reply. So I can only state the information she has already given me.

She said I would get my working hours and conditions in the contract. The current advert doesn't say, though an older advert states that there are twenty teaching hours per week, plus an undisclosed amount of office time.
The role is as a young learner teacher. I suppose the resources will be the standard EF ones, which have mixed reviews.

I realise I am coming one month too late for the start of the academic year, however I can't come before due to prior commitments. Will there be any universities desperate for staff in September if staff don't come to China? If so that could be an option.

I realise that the experience is seen near worthless in Europe, but there are quite a lot of entry jobs in Europe that I could apply for.

I will see what the centre manager says. Are salaries really that negotiable that I could get 8000+RMB? If the salary is not brought up to this level, along with all the additional extras, I think I will reject the job. The school definitely smells very desperate, so hopefully they will give in Smile

(Also I have just realised who ridiculous the username amisexy is Razz!!)
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timteach



Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck! Not sure if you have seen this already but they have some reviews here. http://www.goteachabroad.com/teach-in-china/ef-education-first-teaching-positions-in-china/13
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therock



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, if you stick around EF for a while, there are opportunities for advancement. Also remember, EF has schools around the world, so if you were to apply to EF in another country, the EF experience you gain here would put you in good stead for that position.

Wow, I am saying something nice about private language schools. Shocked
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