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EF Hangzhou
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Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did wonder about the username Very Happy

TBH - I would say to avoid the university sector. As a new CELTA graduate it is unlikely that you will be able to apply too many of your newly earned CELTA skills in a university setting, and you probably wont learn too much as a teacher that will be transferrable back to even an entry-level job in Europe.

EF material does have mixed reviews ... but the odds are you wont get any material in a university. Most college or university classes are quite large ... think 30, 40, 50 or more students. Rarely streamed by ability either. And you will probably be there just to facilitate conversation, so may not get the chance to learn more in terms of teaching specific target language / grammar points and skills lessons. Of course, you aren't sure to get proper training and materials in every training centre (fingers crossed you will), but you are certainly more likely to have the chance to build upon your CELTA training.

A year teaching in a Chinese university can surely be a great experience, and there are things to learn, but when you go back to the EU, apply for a job, and someone interviewing you asks 'How would you teach any aspect of the present perfect using adverbial markers?', you might struggle to answer. People in the EU often teach stuff like that ... people in Chinese university settings rarely do. In training centres you may get the opportunity to actually learn something you can use later.

Having recently been a teacher trainer on a CELTA type course, I can tell you (just as your own tutors probably did) that the real learning starts when you start your first job. But it needs to be the right job ... I spent 18 months working at a vocational college in China, and whilst I loved it at the time, I look back upon it now as time wasted in terms of growth and professional development. I would be very loath to recommend any new teacher goes to work in a Chinese university.
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The Edge



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 455
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL at anybody with the OP's credentials even considering working at a Language Mill.
Happens all the time though.
The Mills and recruiters must spend most of their days laughing until it hurts.
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kungfuman



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1510
Location: In My Own Private Idaho

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Does anyone with decent credentials WANTS to work in a mill?
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The Edge



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 455
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kungfuman wrote:
^ Does anyone with decent credentials WANTS to work in a mill?


Seems that the well qualified OP and thousands of others of a similar ilk do.
Can't work out why myself.
Each to their own.
They'll learn.
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Babala



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1194
Location: Suzhou, Jiangsu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on the mill. I have worked at public schools and universities but I switched over to a training center and am quite content. I have western health insurance, am getting my DELTA paid for and work less hours than most university teachers.
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Lobster



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because most mills pay more.
Because mill students pay and are motivated.
Because mills offer year-round employment.
Because some mills offer bonuses.
Because some mills give you free rein.
Because some mills offer opportunities to increase earning through overtime without outside work.

Just a few reasons.

RED
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amisexy



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still haven't had any reply off the school. Iím guessing I probably will on Monday or Tuesday.
I would love to work in China, but wondering if it really is for me as I would like to come back to Europe.

The Edge/kungfuman- Where would you recommend I looked for a different job?
As far as I can tell there are three kinds.
a) Universities- Low pay, but few hours. No real development.
b)Public Schools- Average pay and less hours than a mill. Usually have very big classes and school could be in a poor condition.
c)Mills like EF- Better pay, but the most hours.

Apart from jobs which require a good number of years experience, the highest paid jobs I can find are all around 7000RMB plus flight/ accommodation and similar.
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fred13331



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Southern China

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lobster wrote:
Because most mills pay more.
Because mill students pay and are motivated.
Because mills offer year-round employment.
Because some mills offer bonuses.
Because some mills give you free rein.
Because some mills offer opportunities to increase earning through overtime without outside work.

Just a few reasons.

RED


almost certainly, the weakest collection of arguments yo will ever see

1) Mills pay more. Only if you work ungodly hours.

You will make more money at $10 dollaes an hour than I will at $30 an hour if you work x4 the hours. Who is better off? Who has more scope for expansion?

Because mill students pay and are motivated

Anyone who has been in China more than 14 seconds is having a hearty chuckle at this

''Because mills offer year-round employment''

''

mills will make you work 40 hours a week, fifty weeks a year. Better universities will give you four months paid holiday. You decide

''Because some mills offer bonuses.


so do ''''''''some'''''' universities''


''Because some mills give you free rein.''

Lets throw together some random phrases and hope they buy it.

''Because some mills offer opportunities to increase earning through overtime without outside work.

i do 15,000 worth of overtime every month thru outside extras . I can do this based on my 12 hours a week at uni. Lets see you have the energy to work extras after a 40 hour week down the mill
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therock



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amisexy wrote:
I still haven't had any reply off the school. Iím guessing I probably will on Monday or Tuesday.
I would love to work in China, but wondering if it really is for me as I would like to come back to Europe.
.


Well with your qualifications, the type of work you'd get in Europe would be with private training schools, so maybe EF wouldn't be a bad option.
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Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd suggest that The British Council is probably one of the (if not THE) most 'blue chip' of TEFL employers ... and they are a (SHOCK) language mill / training centre.

I'll counter one or two of the other comments above. If you teach adults in training centres, they are generally quite well motivated. (university students are not adults OK people). Not all training centres exist just to edutain children.

Not all training centres make you work evenings, weekends or 40 hours a week.

Decent credentials are not generally classed as an unrelated BA/BSc, CELTA and no experience. Those are entry-level qualifications only, anyone with an inkling of interest in professional development and decent qualifications needs to be thinking about adding a related MA or DELTA before their credentials can be classed as 'decent'.

amisexy - Ill say again, seek one of the better training centre jobs and ignore some of the comments knocking your choices and moaning about the salary. If you are at all serious about TEFL, choose something for the learning experience you can get, not the RMB at the end of the month. Someone did mention earlier in the thread they struggle to live off 6000 per month, and I personally find that quite hard to believe. Its quite possible to enjoy China on far less than that if you have housing included.
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amisexy



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the advice guys Smile
It has been really helpful.


I have just one additional question: How negotiable is the contract a potential employer gives you in China.

Id I asked for a higher wage would they give it? How much should you ask for?

Thanks
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kungfuman



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1510
Location: In My Own Private Idaho

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amisexy wrote:
Thanks for all the advice guys Smile
It has been really helpful.


I have just one additional question: How negotiable is the contract a potential employer gives you in China.

Id I asked for a higher wage would they give it? How much should you ask for?

Thanks


Depends how desperate they are and how bad of a reputation they have.
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The Edge



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 455
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP: Contracts are the least of your worries. They are worth Jacksh1t.
If you are desperate to work out here then just accept it and then quit when you have got yourself established in the city.
There are more jobs here than you can shake a stick at.
It shouldn't take you very long to move on to a a decent gig with your credentials.
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Babala



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1194
Location: Suzhou, Jiangsu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be careful of that plan. A friend of mine did just that and the local gov't informed him that he had just signed a contract with one school and there was no way they would let him back out of one contract to sign with another school. His only choice was to stay with the school he was at or leave the city.
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Andy Pandy



Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://ef-hangzhou-china.blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.pl?read=79754

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.pl?read=79783

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.pl?read=79778
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