Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

"Approved" to teach in Guanajuato state?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Mexico
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tideout



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:07 am    Post subject: "Approved" to teach in Guanajuato state? Reply with quote

I thought I would post this to see what others might think or know about it.

I'm currently looking for (and may have found) work teaching in Guanajuato State. I recently spoke with two different directoras in Universities about available work, my qualifications etc...

Both made vague comments about not being sure if the State would approve me or not for work. Frankly, the responses didn't seem negative so much as just not aware of what the situation was. One mentioned that I'd probably have to go to the "Secretary of Education" office in the state to see if I'd get approval. I said my documents were all apostilled already but again, one of the directors didn't seem to respond to this in a meaningful way.

Just to note - I have my B.A. (apostilled), TESOL cert. (apostilled), birth certficate (apostilled) and an FBI check (not required from what I know but it's also apostilled). The TESOL cert and B.A. are apostilled in a State different where I've lived before, not specifically a school address but I can't imagine they would even know that....I've had an FM3 before for what it's worth.

My question is this - should I be specifically concerned about weirder requirements in Guanajuato (jobs are actually in Leon)? Should I take the documents now to the Secretary of State to make sure there's not an issue or something I can resolve quicker? What specific office should I be looking for?

Thanks anyone for any thoughts on this....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You sound well prepared to get started. Try to get the tramite underway by 9 November, to avoid running afoul of the new laws relating to immigration, and the restricitions on change of status.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tideout



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tretyakovskii wrote:
You sound well prepared to get started. Try to get the tramite underway by 9 November, to avoid running afoul of the new laws relating to immigration, and the restricitions on change of status.


Thanks for the support, I appreciate it. We'll see this next week how things go at the schools. I'd like to get something of a commitment from either of the schools on a hire before beginning the overall documentation process. The problem is is that neither of the schools would be able to start me before the middle to end of January. Ya' never know though, sometimes things fall into place if you go right at it.

From what I can tell, the first step is to probably get the docs approved by the Secretary of Education for my state. I wonder if you or anyone is familiar with that process and or the costs involved?

I should add, that I'm not even clear this is a requirement in my state - the schools were both vague.

Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it have something to do with SEP requirements?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
tideout



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isla Guapa wrote:
Could it have something to do with SEP requirements?


Yes, that's what I'm wondering about. It's not 100% clear from my conversations that's what they're referring to but it almost has to be. In my previous run here in Mexico I didn't have to deal with it so I'm in the dark on it. The visa process last time wasn't great.

It's been suggested that I get some kind of commitment (hired) from an institution before starting on the SEP requirements. I'm imagining that the state looks at your documents and decides they are valid? I can't imagine what else it entails really? Any insight on the process or experiences with it, costs etc would be appreciated?

What I want to avoid is a lengthy, expensive process that then only leads to a half-a**ed job situation.

Been there & done that in Mexico and don't need to repeat it if you know what I mean.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1129
Location: 17°48'N 97°46'W

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing they haven't had foreign teachers before and it so it does have to do with SEP requirements. But I'm not sure what to tell you about going about getting that sort of approval. The SEP would generally want Mexicans to have a Cedula Professional, which I'm not sure if foriegners can get since the none of the foreigners I know teaching in Mexican universities (Teaching English or other subjects) have that, but the Mexicans I know teaching in universities do all have that. It envolves going to Mexico City, and getting your degrees validated--it's done by appointment and the appointments are give several weeks after making them, but if you turn up with the documents they ask for--all reports tell me it's an easy harmless processess.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can´t be sure of the details but it was last year that the SEP (which is a federal, not a state, entity) mandated new regulations which said that teachers need to have a certificate or degree approved by them. For English teachers I know that several universities are now giving SEP-approved diploma programs. In any event, I wouldn't start any trámites till I had a concrete job offer in hand.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
tideout



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isla Guapa wrote:
I can´t be sure of the details but it was last year that the SEP (which is a federal, not a state, entity) mandated new regulations which said that teachers need to have a certificate or degree approved by them. For English teachers I know that several universities are now giving SEP-approved diploma programs. In any event, I wouldn't start any trámites till I had a concrete job offer in hand.


Thanks for responding. Maybe it's just a paperwork process but I don't know what would be added to a 4 year Liberal Arts B.A. from a State university system in the US and a recognized TESOL certificate?

I highly doubt I'd stick around to semi-replicate my TESOL certificate in a SEP approved diploma program. When you consider the money you'd have to spend on a course and the possible money lost while taking it, it could start to add up no? I get job offers every few days now from Asia - clear contracts and more money.

Everyone seems to agree that a real job offer prior to the process is a must. I guess if I had a decent job (hours, pay etc..) and the school was amenable to my obtaining the SEP-credentials after starting the job it could be done though I'm not sure how much time is required, costs etc for a SEP-diploma? Anyone have a SEP-diploma or have any thoughts on the value of it vs. a good TESOL program (SIT in my case)?

Sorry if this is going round and round a bit - the responses are appreciated in any case!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tideout



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Requirements and confusion in Leon.... Reply with quote

In the latest round of paperwork confusion here in GTO state, it appears that the private universities are required to have their ESL teachers have a cedula profesional.

Here's the apparent catch in getting the cedula profesional: Transcripts of your classes need to be submitted to the Secretary of Education for GTO and if your transcripts match the same kinds of classes that the specific university offers then you get approval.

In my case, I highly doubt I'd make the cut given my specific classes in my B.A. though I have a valid diploma, TESOL cert etc. Even a previous FM3 in Mexico. This appears to cut out any public school requiring a cedula profesional in this state.......

It seems crazy to though it may explain why I see almost no foreign teachers here.......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1129
Location: 17°48'N 97°46'W

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tideout,
There seems to be some major confusion going on over this issue.
My husband finished his PhD earlier this year and has recently obtained his cedula professional.
It is not tied to a job--it's an easy way for people to varify that the professional they are dealing with really is that professional. For example, doctors usually display their cedulat profesional number on their signs and you can go to this handy web page, enter that number, and make sure your doctor is legit.
http://www.cedulaprofesional.sep.gob.mx/cedula/indexAvanzada.action

So seeing if your BAs classes match up with what the university you want to work in is teaching--is just a way to determine what the Mexican equivalent of your BA is. You can look to any Mexican university program to do this--it's not related to employment at that university--it's related to them understanding your degree. Unfortunately it would be very hard for almost any US BA holder to find a university course of study that has a 75% match. For example, my BA was 120 credit hours of which only 33 had to be in my major. I was required to take 9 credits of natural sciences, 3 credits of math, 9 credits of social science, 12 credits of foriegn language, 3 credits of physical education, 9 credits of history, 9 credits of English of which 3 had to be composition, etc. I've not heard of that kind of degree in Mexico where generally English is the only requirement not directly related to the choosen field of study. In other words, math students only take math (and English) no history or all that other stuff.

Anyway, here is the information about getting it-
http://www.sep.gob.mx/es/sep1/sep1_Registro_de_Titulo_y_Ex_cedula#.UJvbSmdBHCs

HERE IS THE INFORMATION FOR FOREIGNERS.

http://www.sep.gob.mx/es/sep1/Estudios_Obtenidos_en_el_Extranjero_yo_por_Extranjeros_Nivel_Licenciatura#.UJvfmGdBHCs

NOTE: you need to already hold "an FM3 or FM2" obviously they haven't updated for the new status, as this is one of the requirements.

My advice is if you want to persue this do it directly with the SEP, not with the institution you are trying to get a job with--to me it sounds like they are feeding you misinformation and Mexican administrators do that often, you have no way of know if it's on purpose or not--but should assume that it very well could be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tideout



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MotherF,

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to respond in detail and with examples. I genuinely appreciate the effort and I hope you'll take everything I say in that context.

You're description of what the cedula profesional is the best description I've found including from any of the universities or schools where I've been. Over the last few days I've received some parallel information from a contact I have here who works in government. It's all a bit clearer.

Unfortunately, the worst place to find information seem to be in the schools themselves. It's hard to distinguish between the information from the school as being merely uninformed vs. misleading. I frankly hadn't considered the possibility that they were intentionally misleading people and I can't imagine why they would? I'm not doubting you, but feel free to elaborate!

As for the cedula itself, I have very little confidence in my degree matching their curriculum here. I can fully understand the need for plenty of biology courses if your'e going to teach biology but ESL positions wouldn't track out the same in most places in the world (even southern Mexico at least a few years ago). Frankly, imposing that structure on ESL teachers seems bizarre if not intended to simply block the possibility - maybe that's the intention?

Thanks for the info on the FM3 needing to come before the cedula professional. It is interesting to me that neither of the two universities who say, "we always want teachers like you" have mentioned anything about the FM3, a contract, possible hours, possible pay etc.. They seem to want the cedula before they'll discuss anything else.


I can't imagine going through such a lengthy bureaucratic process with so little chance of a "matching" curriculum and the lack of responses to basic questions from the schools. The odds of a zero payoff at the end seem all too high with regards to the public universities.

Again, thanks for your thoughtful response - very nice of you.

tideout


MotherF wrote:
Tideout,
There seems to be some major confusion going on over this issue.
My husband finished his PhD earlier this year and has recently obtained his cedula professional.
It is not tied to a job--it's an easy way for people to varify that the professional they are dealing with really is that professional. For example, doctors usually display their cedulat profesional number on their signs and you can go to this handy web page, enter that number, and make sure your doctor is legit.
http://www.cedulaprofesional.sep.gob.mx/cedula/indexAvanzada.action

So seeing if your BAs classes match up with what the university you want to work in is teaching--is just a way to determine what the Mexican equivalent of your BA is. You can look to any Mexican university program to do this--it's not related to employment at that university--it's related to them understanding your degree. Unfortunately it would be very hard for almost any US BA holder to find a university course of study that has a 75% match. For example, my BA was 120 credit hours of which only 33 had to be in my major. I was required to take 9 credits of natural sciences, 3 credits of math, 9 credits of social science, 12 credits of foriegn language, 3 credits of physical education, 9 credits of history, 9 credits of English of which 3 had to be composition, etc. I've not heard of that kind of degree in Mexico where generally English is the only requirement not directly related to the choosen field of study. In other words, math students only take math (and English) no history or all that other stuff.

Anyway, here is the information about getting it-
http://www.sep.gob.mx/es/sep1/sep1_Registro_de_Titulo_y_Ex_cedula#.UJvbSmdBHCs

HERE IS THE INFORMATION FOR FOREIGNERS.

http://www.sep.gob.mx/es/sep1/Estudios_Obtenidos_en_el_Extranjero_yo_por_Extranjeros_Nivel_Licenciatura#.UJvfmGdBHCs

NOTE: you need to already hold "an FM3 or FM2" obviously they haven't updated for the new status, as this is one of the requirements.

My advice is if you want to persue this do it directly with the SEP, not with the institution you are trying to get a job with--to me it sounds like they are feeding you misinformation and Mexican administrators do that often, you have no way of know if it's on purpose or not--but should assume that it very well could be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1129
Location: 17°48'N 97°46'W

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tideout wrote:
MotherF,
Unfortunately, the worst place to find information seem to be in the schools themselves. It's hard to distinguish between the information from the school as being merely uninformed vs. misleading. I frankly hadn't considered the possibility that they were intentionally misleading people and I can't imagine why they would? I'm not doubting you, but feel free to elaborate!


Because they don't want to come right out and say no to you. Many Mexicans will go to great lengths to not say no. And Administrators in public universities are basically political appointees who get into politican mode then can't seem to ever turn that off. They try to keep you happy enough to be strung along, just in case something works out and they need you on their team in the future.

They also may be trying to hide a weekness of their own or their institution by passing the buck for not hiring you off to some government requirement that you don't have. For example, some public educational institutions can be quite anti-foriegn. The people you are talking to might know this, but be embarrassed to admit it to you so they are trying to find another reason for not hiring you that keeps them from having to explain that to you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tideout



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MotherF wrote:
tideout wrote:
MotherF,
Unfortunately, the worst place to find information seem to be in the schools themselves. It's hard to distinguish between the information from the school as being merely uninformed vs. misleading. I frankly hadn't considered the possibility that they were intentionally misleading people and I can't imagine why they would? I'm not doubting you, but feel free to elaborate!


Because they don't want to come right out and say no to you. Many Mexicans will go to great lengths to not say no. And Administrators in public universities are basically political appointees who get into politican mode then can't seem to ever turn that off. They try to keep you happy enough to be strung along, just in case something works out and they need you on their team in the future.

They also may be trying to hide a weekness of their own or their institution by passing the buck for not hiring you off to some government requirement that you don't have. For example, some public educational institutions can be quite anti-foriegn. The people you are talking to might know this, but be embarrassed to admit it to you so they are trying to find another reason for not hiring you that keeps them from having to explain that to you.


You may have hit the nail on the head in at least a couple of cases.

I can't tell you how many times it seems I've had very friendly responses only to have emails go unresponded to or "offers" that I find hard to believe are serious. In one case, I was scheduled to give a demo and the director didn't show up. Things happen and I did get an apology but then when I followed up with a couple of basic questions, I've never gotten a response.

In another discussion at another school, I was told they were always looking for teachers with my background. When I asked if the school assisted at all then with the visa process they just said "no".

I appreciate your thoughts on the cultural possibilities of this. I may have ignored it on some level in my general enthusiasm about Mexico.....

I know I'm finished hunting and pecking around for schools here at this point. It's not worth it to me. I'd consider actual ads for positions as at least on some basic level they are looking for some sort of outcome and then have an investment in the process.

tideout
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tideout



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MotherF wrote:
tideout wrote:
MotherF,
Unfortunately, the worst place to find information seem to be in the schools themselves. It's hard to distinguish between the information from the school as being merely uninformed vs. misleading. I frankly hadn't considered the possibility that they were intentionally misleading people and I can't imagine why they would? I'm not doubting you, but feel free to elaborate!


Because they don't want to come right out and say no to you. Many Mexicans will go to great lengths to not say no. And Administrators in public universities are basically political appointees who get into politican mode then can't seem to ever turn that off. They try to keep you happy enough to be strung along, just in case something works out and they need you on their team in the future.

They also may be trying to hide a weekness of their own or their institution by passing the buck for not hiring you off to some government requirement that you don't have. For example, some public educational institutions can be quite anti-foriegn. The people you are talking to might know this, but be embarrassed to admit it to you so they are trying to find another reason for not hiring you that keeps them from having to explain that to you.


You may have hit the nail on the head in at least a couple of cases.

I can't tell you how many times it seems I've had very friendly responses only to have emails go unresponded to or "offers" that I find hard to believe are serious. In one case, I was scheduled to give a demo and the director didn't show up. Things happen and I did get an apology but then when I followed up with a couple of basic questions, I've never gotten a response.

In another discussion at another school, I was told they were always looking for teachers with my background. When I asked if the school assisted at all then with the visa process they just said "no".

I appreciate your thoughts on the cultural possibilities of this. I may have ignored it on some level in my general enthusiasm about Mexico.....

I know I'm finished hunting and pecking around for schools here at this point. It's not worth it to me. I'd consider actual ads for positions as at least on some basic level they are looking for some sort of outcome and then have an investment in the process.

tideout
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Mexico All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC