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Oddelo
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: Jolly Kingdom, Hong Kong |
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Anyone have any info on this school?
I just got offered a job, but they want me to start first, then apply for my working visa.
It seems like all past discussions have been deleted from the forum. |
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sistercream
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 419
Location: Pearl River Delta
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, you're correct, the previous thread has been deleted. I don't know when; it was active a month or two ago.
I think it's fair to say that the two of us active on these boards who have worked there would not recommend it to their worst enemies, let alone their friends ... and I'm one of the former employees.
In case this thread goes the way of the other, get your post count here high enough to PM me, and I'll send you all the gory details. |
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hongkongteacher2
Joined: 15 May 2012
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Quite shocked that Dave's ESL would remove true statements about stories about this company.
@Dave, I will be happy to share my employment contract and particulars to prove I worked for them. You should not remove the truth about companies. It only allows positive and biased statements about every company to remain.
Last edited by hongkongteacher2 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hongkongteacher2
Joined: 15 May 2012
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Anyway, let me try again saying only facts and revert from emotional inclusions.
Jolly Kingdom is an English learning center.
The centers each have 1 foreign NET and the remaining teachers are local teachers.
The foreign NETs make a salary of approximately 17 - 20k per month while local NETs make a salary of about 11-13k.
Jolly Kingdom's contract includes a penalty clause for quitting the job. The penalty requires a one month salary CASH payment, plus a 2-3 months notice OR 3 months salary CASH.
Jolly Kingdom has several centers and if you work for them, they require you to work the first month without a working visa and they claim it is "training" and pay you cash. This is illegal.
Jolly Kingdom does not have all of its centers registered with the EDB, and hence teaching more than 8 students or 20 per day is a violation with HK government which provides the teacher a penalty of up to 2 years in jail and 200,000hkd fine.
Dr. Jeff, the owner, instructs teachers to give only positive feedback to parents. Dr. Jeff has a weekly meeting with the teachers to discuss problem students and new teaching ideas. Dr. Jeff makes the teachers write new lesson plans for him and he writes his name on them.
Facts:
At other centers, you can earn 25 - 30k per month, with NO experience.
At other centers, you will NOT have a penalty clause.
This is the absolute truth, and you may make your own opinion based on it. Good luck.
**PM me for personal details. |
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sistercream
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 419
Location: Pearl River Delta
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Oddelo, I sent you a PM, but it hasn't appeared in my Sent box (is there a time delay?), so let me know if it doesn't come through.
A few more details to the above on the open board here for as long as they are allowed to remain:
38 teaching hours in a 45 hour week.
No turn-around time between classes; you're required to dismiss one class and welcome the next promptly on the hour.
No leaving the premises except when clocked out for lunch - even during your prep. hour to go to the stationery shop or grab a coffee next door.
Mixed classes - it's very rare that you'll have even 2 kids in the same class doing the same lesson.
As well as "teaching", you are expected to keep two full records of what you do with each student - in longhand - one in the parents' handbook, one for inhouse. I calculated that with all the school' specifications of how to run the lessons, in a class of 6 each child would receive something under 2 minutes of individual attention.
Egregious copyright violation (and coming from someone who taught in Taiwan in the bad old days, that is a VERY strong comment).
I could go on, but I should simmer down a bit before my bed time! |
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hongkongteacher2
Joined: 15 May 2012
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Agreed, sistercream, do you care to share your salary? |
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sistercream
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 419
Location: Pearl River Delta
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: |
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16.5K, + $10 for every student over the 100 mark taught in a single week. The latter wasn't in the contract, it was - don't laugh - "ex gratia."
Had I known that the contract was not going to include items I have come to regard as standard - housing/ utilities assistance and 13th month/ contract completion bonus - I wouldn't have agreed to sign for less than 25K.
Heaven knows I'm not in teaching for money or a life of ease, but that contract and the working conditions were shockers! |
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Oddelo
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| You all have a wealth of information, thank you for sharing!! |
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KenMc
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I followed your advice and asked for 25-30k/mo in the past 2 months, but no schools get back to me and I missed several valuable opportunitites. I find your figure really misleading  |
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kowlooner
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 226
Location: HK, BCC (former)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry about your experience, but at the same time you really can't blame them. There are lots of discussions on this web site about salary expectations, and a quick google search would show a number of salary surveys that would be useful as a basis for comparison. Besides that, the lack of response could be due to a number of other factors. Anyway, learn from this and adjust your strategy. Good luck! |
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Joshua2006
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| KenMc wrote: |
| I followed your advice and asked for 25-30k/mo in the past 2 months, but no schools get back to me and I missed several valuable opportunitites. I find your figure really misleading |
Don't blame other people for trying to help you with what is actually way below the norm for the majority of people already in Hong Kong. It's not our fault if schools don't find you employable. |
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Smoog
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| KenMc wrote: |
| I followed your advice and asked for 25-30k/mo in the past 2 months, but no schools get back to me and I missed several valuable opportunitites. I find your figure really misleading |
It depends on what job you're going for.
$25-30k /mth seems high for just tutorial school teaching but I haven't done any for a while so don't know the going rate. That said, when I did do it 6 years ago the going rate was $16-$20k, making their quoted figure 25 - 90% increase: quite a jump.
True, there's been an average 5% p.a. inflation over this time but teaching pay hasn't gone up, other than for NETs as their pay is set under the same pay scales as local teachers.
The Australian school hasn't had any pay raises while ESF teachers have had just 2 in the past 6 years of around 2% each time. If the biggest private employer of teachers in HK can justify not giving it's teachers a pay rise, I doubt tute centres will have increased their salaries so generously.
Tutorial schools are there to make the owners money, nothing else. They will not pay more than they have to. If there's loads of people out there willing to work for less, these places will take them. Most tute centres care more about saving money than about the quality of the 'teacher' fronting the class.
On top of that, what the locals are willing to work for is shocking, and has the unfortunate effect of dragging down pay for us privileged white folk. Other than the 'star tutors' you see plastered across the back of buses, the majority of locals working in the education industry are paid peanuts. They'll do a tutorial centre gig for $15k, some as low as $10k.
I had an interview as one supposedly top tutorial centre late last year for some p/t work teaching IB Math: something you definitely need to be qualified for. It's not like anyone could walk off the street and teach advanced calculus, so I was expecting a reasonably high hourly rate. Instead they offered me $200 per 90 minute lesson and I would be expected to prepare all my own lesson materials (which would then be their property): that's at least another 30 minutes prep there.
2 hours work teaching at an advanced level for $200? I just got up and walked out. But a local would work for that, which is why they offer such an insulting pittance.
If I were you, I'd be asking for $20k to get your foot in the door, get some experience and then look around for something better. |
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Perilla
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 730
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| Smoog wrote: |
| If I were you, I'd be asking for $20k to get your foot in the door, get some experience and then look around for something better. |
In my opinion this may be unrealistic. I understand your logic about employers ripping teachers and students off, but reality dictates that private schools WILL find people to work for them for less than 20K. The dilemma for Oddelo is that if he insists on 20K-plus he may never get his foot in the door. |
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celta
Joined: 28 Aug 2011
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Perilla wrote: |
| Smoog wrote: |
| If I were you, I'd be asking for $20k to get your foot in the door, get some experience and then look around for something better. |
In my opinion this may be unrealistic. I understand your logic about employers ripping teachers and students off, but reality dictates that private schools WILL find people to work for them for less than 20K. The dilemma for Oddelo is that if he insists on 20K-plus he may never get his foot in the door. |
This is a good point. I have virtually no experience, no white face but have a celta. I may be receiving an offer from such a centre soon.
I have been in HK for 6 weeks and haven't received many interviews. If I don't take a "poor offer" now, I may be twiddling my thumbs for a while? I may well just have to grin and bear it for a while??
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sistercream
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 419
Location: Pearl River Delta
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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It depends on your own perspective and financial needs ... I have been known to hack a cr@p job (see above  )for a year to get my foot in the door of a city where I want to be, but I'm old & ugly enough that 12 months doesn't seem like an unbearable amount of time. |
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