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Nagoyaguy



Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 408
Location: Aichi, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey-man;

Sorry I wasn't clear. The "per koma" salary is monthly. So, if you teach 12 koma at a low paying uni, your monthly salary is 12 times 25,000 yen, or 300,000. The good part is that you are paid over 12 months, even though you only work for eight.

Glenski;
Not sure about Hokkaido, but here in Aichi, the system is pretty informal. Most people (those at private unis anyway) know each other and who is available. As for advertising, my school does "advertise" vacancies. but in a rather obscure location on the school's homepage. In Japanese only, even for jobs that require a native level of English. It really cuts down on the busywork and lets the school basically pick who they want with minimum fuss.

That's why I said, and I think you agree, that the best option is to get here, get situated, make contacts, and be patient. If Maggie has the attitude that she doesn't want to "start at the bottom", she may be in for a surprise.
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Mr_Monkey



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nagoyaguy wrote:
Monkey-man;

Sorry I wasn't clear. The "per koma" salary is monthly. So, if you teach 12 koma at a low paying uni, your monthly salary is 12 times 25,000 yen, or 300,000. The good part is that you are paid over 12 months, even though you only work for eight.
Balls. I'll start unpacking my suitcase then...
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nagoyaguy wrote:
Glenski;
Not sure about Hokkaido, but here in Aichi, the system is pretty informal. Most people (those at private unis anyway) know each other and who is available.
Most uni jobs in Hokkaido are in Sapporo, population almost 2 million. Similarly to Aichi, a lot of people know each other, and that is at many of the unis, not just private ones. But, the vast majority of FT openings are still only for contract positions (1 or 3 years long).

Quote:
As for advertising, my school does "advertise" vacancies. but in a rather obscure location on the school's homepage.
Ken Hartmann's Hokkaido Insider newsletter is a good source for jobs in Hokkaido, so if a school also advertises on its web page, there is that, too. JALT's TLT and JACET's page also have ads from time to time (TLT in English and JACET in either English or Japanese). Most uni jobs, however, around the whole country are posted in JRECIN's web site, and those could be in either language, not always in both.

Quote:
That's why I said, and I think you agree, that the best option is to get here, get situated, make contacts, and be patient.
Oh, absolutely! That will mean taking something else for a while, IMO, before someone can land that uni job. When we were looking for a PT person 3 years ago, we were unable to find anyone locally who would apply (or who we knew was suitable), so we branched out to all of Hokkaido and got a couple of bites, and then when we advertised on Ohayo Sensei, a handful more applicants sent in resumes, including one from Tokyo, New Zealand, and Italy. However, the quality of applicants or their applications themselves was pretty low. Many didn't even read the ad properly, in particular about visa sponsorship. Being in the country will help most people if they aren't published or very experienced, but it's still very competitive.

I would also recommend joining JALT and a couple of suitable SIGs and starting to make presentations and write publications. One doesn't have to be a member of JALT or a SIG to present/publish in JALT journals, either. There are plenty of publications not affiliate with JALT, too.

I'm a little surprised that with the degrees she has, that she has not published yet.

Quote:
If Maggie has the attitude that she doesn't want to "start at the bottom", she may be in for a surprise.
But she did, in fact, say she was willing to do that.
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jmatt



Joined: 29 Apr 2012
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Glenski"]
Nagoyaguy wrote:
Glenski;

I'm a little surprised that with the degrees she has, that she has not published yet.



I don't know what the situation is in Australia or the UK, but in the US, college and university TESOL jobs requiring a master's degree virtually never require publications for employment---though having published certainly doesn't hurt---it's more a thing for PhD's seeking tenured faculty positions.

While I understand that being published shows a dedication to the profession, it seems that in Japan it's more a reflection on the need for doing things the "proper" way and having the necessary licensing and credentials inherent in the culture, than any proof that one is qualified, or able, to actually teach.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Publishing in ANY country is not a measure of teaching ability, IMO, so don't limit remarks to Japan (or PhDs).

In Japan it has nothing to do with licensing. As for having "credentials inherent in the culture", I'm not sure what you mean. Japanese unis generally ask ALL profs of all faculties to publish. Publishing in many fields (in Japan and elsewhere) is necessary to prove academic worth to get grants, not just promotions.
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1304
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
As for having "credentials inherent in the culture", I'm not sure what you mean.


Try "[...]credentials *that is* inherent in the culture", as in the culture assumes those things as an inherent part of the process or system.
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 399
Location: US

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
Publishing in ANY country is not a measure of teaching ability, IMO, so don't limit remarks to Japan (or PhDs).

In Japan it has nothing to do with licensing. As for having "credentials inherent in the culture", I'm not sure what you mean. Japanese unis generally ask ALL profs of all faculties to publish. Publishing in many fields (in Japan and elsewhere) is necessary to prove academic worth to get grants, not just promotions.


I think the point was that for language teaching jobs in the US that require only a masters, publications are not required (but they are for jobs that require a PhD -- i.e., professors).

In my experience in the US, the vast majority of MA students don't have opportunities to get anything published. For most language teachers at US universities who only have a masters (e.g., IEP teachers), the only grants they generally apply for are from their university/college, and publications aren't necessarily required for those. Of the MA students that I know in the US (in TESOL/Applied Linguistics/Second Language Studies, etc.), very, very few have gotten research published; I also only know a few who have presented at conferences. So, I'm a bit confused by your comment that you are "a little surprised that with the degrees she has, that she has not published yet," especially when she already said that her degree did not involve research.
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Mr_Monkey



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G Cthulhu wrote:
Glenski wrote:
As for having "credentials inherent in the culture", I'm not sure what you mean.


Try "[...]credentials *that is* inherent in the culture", as in the culture assumes those things as an inherent part of the process or system.
Alternatively, it could be glossed as "most Japanese universities miss the point completely."
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 801

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are different expectations in different countries. Masters in the USA seem to be a different breed to those elsewhere. In many countries research at Masters level is expected and as such, publications are expected.

Compared to Masters courses in the UK, USA courses seem to be a lot more about being taught, and less about research. (A distinction is made in the UK between a taught Masters and a research Masters, and even the former has a much higher research content than most USA Masters seem to.) So if you've done a Masters and have no publications it will often be assumed that you somehow screwed up and that your research wasn't good enough publish.

The differences are even more pronounced at PhD level. I know the UK Uni I did my PhD at wouldn't take on PhD students from the USA with just a USA Masters unless they had other extensive research experience. Not because there was anything 'wrong' with the Masters they had done, but because it wasn't considered to be a suitable preparation for what would be expected from them in the UK. It wasn't an issue for postgrads from other countries, at least not from the countries that typically applied (Europe, Oz, etc).

So if you do a Masters in the USA and then look for work there it won't be an issue, because the cultural expectation is for a taught course and no publications. But if you try and use the same qualification abroad, you will come up against different expectations. It's down to the individual to realise that and find a way around it, other countries are not going to reduce their requirements just to accommodate the American model.
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1304
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr_Monkey wrote:
G Cthulhu wrote:
Glenski wrote:
As for having "credentials inherent in the culture", I'm not sure what you mean.


Try "[...]credentials *that is* inherent in the culture", as in the culture assumes those things as an inherent part of the process or system.

Alternatively, it could be glossed as "most Japanese universities miss the point completely."


Heh. Indeed. :) The rather bipolar nature of EFL in Japan is another thread entirely.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rtm wrote:
I think the point was that for language teaching jobs in the US that require only a masters, publications are not required (but they are for jobs that require a PhD -- i.e., professors).
ok. I am not familiar with any other country's requirements, hence the surprise.

Quote:
In my experience in the US, the vast majority of MA students don't have opportunities to get anything published. For most language teachers at US universities who only have a masters (e.g., IEP teachers), the only grants they generally apply for are from their university/college, and publications aren't necessarily required for those.
So who needs a grant to do research or get published?

Get data, write it up, and submit to the scores of journals out there, or at least present. The opportunities are certainly there. Now, if as you say, publishing is not required, that is different.


Quote:
Of the MA students that I know in the US in TESOL/Applied Linguistics/Second Language Studies, etc.), very, very few have gotten research published; I also only know a few who have presented at conferences.
Is that because it is not expected or required, or for some other reason? Also, I'm not talking about MA students but teachers.

Quote:
So, I'm a bit confused by your comment that you are "a little surprised that with the degrees she has, that she has not published yet," especially when she already said that her degree did not involve research.
I don't think she said that, did she?
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 399
Location: US

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HLJHLJ wrote:
There are different expectations in different countries. Masters in the USA seem to be a different breed to those elsewhere. In many countries research at Masters level is expected and as such, publications are expected.
....
So if you've done a Masters and have no publications it will often be assumed that you somehow screwed up and that your research wasn't good enough publish.

Thank you for that information. I didn't know that publications were expected from all MA graduates in the UK.

In my experience in the US, research opportunities for MA students are available, but only if the student makes an effort to take advantage of them. However, to continue on for a PhD, students typically must have research experience.

Glenski wrote:

Quote:
In my experience in the US, the vast majority of MA students don't have opportunities to get anything published. For most language teachers at US universities who only have a masters (e.g., IEP teachers), the only grants they generally apply for are from their university/college, and publications aren't necessarily required for those.
So who needs a grant to do research or get published?

I didn't say that a grant is necessary to do research. My comment was in response to:
Glenski wrote:

Publishing in many fields (in Japan and elsewhere) is necessary to prove academic worth to get grants, not just promotions.


Quote:
Quote:
Of the MA students that I know in the US in TESOL/Applied Linguistics/Second Language Studies, etc.), very, very few have gotten research published; I also only know a few who have presented at conferences.
Is that because it is not expected or required, or for some other reason? Also, I'm not talking about MA students but teachers.

It's neither expected nor required for MA graduates to publish in the US.
I should have said "recent MA graduates", rather than "students" (the people I'm thinking of were students when I knew them best, so I still imagine them as students, although they are teachers now).

Quote:
Quote:
So, I'm a bit confused by your comment that you are "a little surprised that with the degrees she has, that she has not published yet," especially when she already said that her degree did not involve research.
I don't think she said that, did she?


She said:
maggietulliver wrote:
I am a little (lot) concerned, as I did a coursework MA (in TESOL) and would like to work at a university in Japan.
(emphasis mine)
I took that to mean that it was a 'taught' MA rather than a 'research' MA. If I misunderstood, I apologize; however, it appears others understood it that way, too. Though, from what HLJHLJ says, a 'taught' MA may still involve research, so maybe she does have research experience.

There are, of course, 2 different situations here -- maggie's MA from Australia(?), where publication may or may not be expected of MA graduates, and jmatt's and my experiences in the US.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rtm wrote:
She said:
maggietulliver wrote:
I am a little (lot) concerned, as I did a coursework MA (in TESOL) and would like to work at a university in Japan.
(emphasis mine)
I took that to mean that it was a 'taught' MA rather than a 'research' MA. If I misunderstood, I apologize; however, it appears others understood it that way, too. Though, from what HLJHLJ says, a 'taught' MA may still involve research, so maybe she does have research experience.

There are, of course, 2 different situations here -- maggie's MA from Australia(?), where publication may or may not be expected of MA graduates, and jmatt's and my experiences in the US.
She also wrote:
Quote:
I do, however, have 4 degrees ( two of which are in Education at post-grad level)
So, 4 degrees and no publications. Nobody else find that strange? Just me? Oh, well.
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Mr_Monkey



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Postgraduate degrees can be for professional development purposes and don't, in the UK at least, imply a research orientation. The English departments at British universities don't ask for publications as part of the requirements for a job teaching EAP.

QTS/TEFLQ and a master's is the norm.

Master's degrees are the new bachelor's degrees in the UK, IMO. Obviously, I'm suggesting the same may be true in Australia.
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1304
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
So, 4 degrees and no publications. Nobody else find that strange? Just me? Oh, well.


4 degrees without any of them being research degrees and the intent towards a career as an academic? No, not strange in the slightest. I've got three degrees and none of them were intended for an academic career and the thought of publishing was never an option or consideration.

Japan really does distort the global norms. Think about it for a second: they commonly expect publications, but I would say that less than 1% of people working in academic (ie. uni level) environments in Japan do anything more than vocational teaching. It's eikaiwa @ uni when you get down to it. Few to none do real academic research of value IMO. "Publishing" in the JALT magazine doesn't count for anything IMO.

Can *anyone* point to some solid academic research done by non-Japanese at a Japanese university in the last year? As in, peer reviewed & published in a real academic journal that actually contributed to human knowledge. Anyone? I just had a quick look on Lexis Nexis and couldn't see anything for the last twelve months.
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