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watfordfan



Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So by applying that logic, you would eliminate everyone who chose to change careers? It doesn't always follow that you need to have a relevant first degree to undertake a Masters in a different subject - work experience & propensity to learn are also taken into account. Obviously if the Masters requires a certain amount of technical expertise, it's a different story, but the English language does not fall into that category, IMO anyway....

Ah well, I should know in a few months time if I'll be deemed as "acceptable".
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Yusuf



Joined: 02 Dec 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't really learn grammar in a BA English; you just take a bunch of literature courses. Plus, the first two years are spent [wasted] on Gen. Ed. I have a BA English and am finishing an MA TESOL. I learned far more about the language in the MA. I don't see why career-changers should be disqualified.
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FarGone



Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those native-English speakers with three+ years of teaching English in a foreign (non-English speaking) country and with good recommendations + a Master's degree in any subject should be good enough to teach (what will be very basic) English in Oman.

These new "requirements" are absurd. Rolling Eyes

Teaching what will be pre-planned lessons (handed to you by your "Boss") and insert-the-CD, here we go, students, now let's listen to your pronunciation + verb tenses + rudimentary writing (can you string six words together and make a functional sentence?) is not brain surgery. No need for the drama that Oman induces in the hiring process.
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As others have stated, I can't see how studying Dickens and Shakespeare for three years gives you an edge when it comes to teaching phonetics, grammar etc. Literature and EFL have very little in common. If the requirements were limited to just degrees in Linguistics, TEFL etc. then I could at least understand that, but, like I've said elsewhere, that substantially cuts down on potential applicants and the employment conditions offered should take that into account.

Besides, Oman, as far as I know, isn't the place for 'first-time' teachers and the advertisements I've seen seem to require a few years experience. Plus they want a teaching certificate, e.g. a CELTA, and that should do a lot, as far as I can see, to sort the sheep from the goats.

Anyway, it's up to Oman, but they are probably missing out on some great teachers. Incidentally, one of the best TEFLers I've ever seen has a degree in Horticulture.
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cairanya



Joined: 02 Jun 2012
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st Sgt Welsh wrote:
As others have stated, I can't see how studying Dickens and Shakespeare for three years gives you an edge when it comes to teaching phonetics, grammar etc. Literature and EFL have very little in common. If the requirements were limited to just degrees in Linguistics, TEFL etc. then I could at least understand that, but, like I've said elsewhere, that substantially cuts down on potential applicants and the employment conditions offered should take that into account.

Besides, Oman, as far as I know, isn't the place for 'first-time' teachers and the advertisements I've seen seem to require a few years experience. Plus they want a teaching certificate, e.g. a CELTA, and that should do a lot, as far as I can see, to sort the sheep from the goats.

Anyway, it's up to Oman, but they are probably missing out on some great teachers. Incidentally, one of the best TEFLers I've ever seen has a degree in Horticulture.


Do we cosign things here? I want to cosign this: it's dead-on.


Last edited by cairanya on Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mister!



Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sirens of Cyprus wrote:
No, it's not much at all to expect the undergrad to be related. In fact, it should be in English. Period. It's perfectly logical. If I went around with an MS in physics trying to get a job in physics and it turned out my udergrad was in English, employers would be perfectly justified in being highly suspicious of both me and my graduate school. Several times I have been shocked to find out a colleague with an MA in ESL didn't know a noun from a verb and it turned out her undergrad was in education or marketing or some such. The same logic applies a fortiori to CELTA's or DELTA's or MA's from education departments, all of which are considerably easier than an MA from an English department.


A lot of Arts subjects (History, Philosophy, Politics...) are assessed primarily on the students' writing skills, and to succeed you need to be able to communicate in fluent and intelligent English. Basically, it is exactly the same as an English degree in terms of the skills required. I was an English minor, and we didn't learn about grammar at any lecture I attended; such things were considered basic general knowledge and were taught at High School. We studied English literature.


Last edited by Mister! on Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Turbster



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 67
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oman immigration does not require transcripts. But, depending upon the verification documentation submitted with your degree to the MOHE, you may be requested to provide transcripts. However, this is not usually the case.

In respect of the nature, and subject of initial, or highest degrees. It is not a practical requirement with any justification, Certainly not a matter for consultation. Just another frustration of working in a developing nation.
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Sirens of Cyprus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A lot of Arts subjects (History, Philosophy, Politics...) are assessed primarily on the students' writing skills, and to succeed you need to be able to communicate in fluent and intelligent English. Basically, it is exactly the same as an English degree in terms of the skills required.


No. When you receive your graded essay in any other subject, you do not see corrections of your English. You are graded entirely on content. English majors suffer through 4 years of thinking about English and being graded on English. That is why they are called English majors, and that is why they should be hired before some gal with a marketing or education major who can't find a job after graduation, but LOVES to travel, hears about the ESL salaries in the ME, takes a quickie CELTA or even an MA in ESL and flirts her way into a job and then flirts her way into management and winds up being my boss and still does not know a noun from a verb.
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Turbster



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 67
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sirens of Cyprus wrote:
Quote:
A lot of Arts subjects (History, Philosophy, Politics...) are assessed primarily on the students' writing skills, and to succeed you need to be able to communicate in fluent and intelligent English. Basically, it is exactly the same as an English degree in terms of the skills required.


No. When you receive your graded essay in any other subject, you do not see corrections of your English. You are graded entirely on content. English majors suffer through 4 years of thinking about English and being graded on English. That is why they are called English majors, and that is why they should be hired before some gal with a marketing or education major who can't find a job after graduation, but LOVES to travel, hears about the ESL salaries in the ME, takes a quickie CELTA or even an MA in ESL and flirts her way into a job and then flirts her way into management and winds up being my boss and still does not know a noun from a verb.


WOW! Methinks someone has a wee chip on her shoulder!

I think its only professional snobbery to think that ONLY those with English degrees can teach the English language. I know of many teachers I have worked with, and fellow students, who could not, and cannot write legibly, spell properly, and who are prone to grammatical errors. Many were English majors. There are some teachers who are grammatically sound, yet have difficulty getting the 'message' across to students. You can't lump them all in together.
One observation I will make (valid given my age and experience) is that the best teachers I have seen, have worked outside teaching for some time, and been 'beaten and bruised' by 'real world' experiences where they have not been the focus of attention. That sort of thing brings some form of humility, which is sadly lacking in most who have done nothing else, and therefore have inflated ideas of their own importance.

Good luck with the flirt! Now she will be on the hunt for who has described her so! Could be one helluva catfight, couldn't it? (Love to be there Smile
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Mister!



Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sirens of Cyprus wrote:
Quote:
A lot of Arts subjects (History, Philosophy, Politics...) are assessed primarily on the students' writing skills, and to succeed you need to be able to communicate in fluent and intelligent English. Basically, it is exactly the same as an English degree in terms of the skills required.


No. When you receive your graded essay in any other subject, you do not see corrections of your English. You are graded entirely on content. English majors suffer through 4 years of thinking about English and being graded on English. That is why they are called English majors, and that is why they should be hired before some gal with a marketing or education major who can't find a job after graduation, but LOVES to travel, hears about the ESL salaries in the ME, takes a quickie CELTA or even an MA in ESL and flirts her way into a job and then flirts her way into management and winds up being my boss and still does not know a noun from a verb.


It depends on how shabby the school you went to is, or at least the departments you were studying in. Having taken courses in Philosophy and History I can tell you that my grammar and writing style were definitely taken into account when grading and corrections were right there for me to see and think about. All this aside, I am shocked that you also consider Education majors as being beneath your lofty place at the top of the CV stack. You sound like someone with a nice shiny English degree who wants to protect their turf at all possible costs. Education? What the hell's that got to do with teaching?
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister! wrote:


It depends on how shabby the school you went to is, or at least the departments you were studying in. Having taken courses in Philosophy and History I can tell you that my grammar and writing style were definitely taken into account when grading and corrections were right there for me to see and think about.


I don't know. Maybe there are some clown colleges out there where they only bother to correct the English mistakes made by English majors. However, in the universities I went to, if I made a spelling, vocab or grammar mistake in any of the History or Asian Studies papers I submitted, I can promise you I got caught out for it. Additionally, I have taught History at a university and, amongst other things, I had to mark undergraduate papers ad nauseum. If there were English mistakes made, I corrected them and deducted marks. If students could not communicate professionally and effectively in English, I failed them.

The above post by Sirens is complete nonsense and matters are not helped by the bizarre claim that someone who has an MA in TEFL or an Education degree is less academically qualified to TEFL than an English Lit major. In regards to the story about the Marketing graduate/boss (who presumably has a teaching certificate and years of experience), but is too clueless to know the difference between a verb and a noun, I'd suggest it is time for a certain poster to raise their standards in the educational institutions that they associate themselves with Wink.
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Anacita



Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Posts: 25
Location: west coast, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which schools or colleges in Oman are requiring candidates to have degrees in English specifically ?
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anacita wrote:
Which schools or colleges in Oman are requiring candidates to have degrees in English specifically ?

This is not clear yet. I have heard that it came from the Ministries, which would mean that it is all of them. I have also heard that it is coming from some recruiters... who are requiring it and others are not.

VS
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Turbster



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 67
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MOHE are the organisation who have set the parameters for employment by Universities and Colleges. What is bewildering is that many teachers clearly meeting all of the criteria are rejected, while others, submitted hopefully as they have excellent teaching records while not fully meeting the criteria, are approved.
Personal contact with the MOHE has ellicited promises of support and transparency in their application of the criteria. Unfortunately, once you leave the building ...........................................................
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MOHE has been rather inconsistent through the years. When I was first hired at SQU in 1988, the requirement was an MA + 1 year of teaching. While they preferred a related MA, there were odd ones in the mix. But, a technical college down the road required an MA + 2 years of experience. Why would the national university have a lower requirement that a technical college? No one had an answer for that one.

A couple years after I arrived, the predominantly British management of these institutions were upset that it was mostly Americans being hired as we tend to get MAs while the Brits preferred the cert system. (CELTA/DELTA/whatever) They managed to change the rules to remove the requirement for an MA.

When these recruiter based colleges appeared around the country, suddenly it was the wild west and breathing was the main requirement. It took them a few years to figure out what a mess this was creating, and now the pendulum has swung back to requiring a "related BA" + CERT + 2 (or is it 3?) years of experience. But the reality is that very few TEFLers have related first degrees, so they are going to have a very difficult time filling all positions. In all my years of teaching in the Gulf, I would estimate that somewhere between 10-25% of teachers had related first degrees. TEFL was my second career, but my first degree was in education... and I had never used it.

As usual, new rules are not well thought out in this part of the world. And my guess it that this rule will NOT survive for obvious reasons. But in the meantime, many people will miss out on jobs because of it.

VS
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