Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Application materials

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
coratheexplorer



Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:44 am    Post subject: Application materials Reply with quote

What do you think of the practice of requesting that applicants send so many personal documents in order to apply for a job? I get that some want a passport scan in order to verify citizenship, and perhaps age in some cases. But can't they wait until reviewing someone's resume before feeling entitled to ask for scanned copies of diplomas, certificates, transcripts?

What happened to the days of just sending your resume as an initial step? Was it ever like that in the ESL field? Maybe it's a recent change. I know the apparent explanation is that schools/companies see it as a way to save time, but it feels a little scam-ish to me. One ad up and voila, someone gets access to volumes of personal information. Doesn't seem right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 2973
Location: Mesopotamia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, but we're dealing with other cultures and how they do things. Frankly, this practice isn't a sign of a scam; it's applied by legit employers as well. When considering who to interview, it makes sense that recruiters want to see that applicants (truly) currently possess the qualifications they say they have (e.g., proof of nationality, certs, academic degrees, etc.). And yes, this helps the process move along, especially for those employers who receive high volumes of CVs and need to get teachers in country sooner than later.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Application materials Reply with quote

coratheexplorer wrote:
What happened to the days of just sending your resume as an initial step? Was it ever like that in the ESL field? Maybe it's a recent change.
You have pretty much answered your own question.

1. Sending just a resume is probably all that is (currently and previously) needed in your own country.

2. Not so in some other cultures, where a picture is needed by foreigners and locals alike (like in Japan) for any sort of job.

3. Go ahead and send the passport scan. Blot out the passport number if you feel necessary and leave the nationality and age to match your picture.

4. Get used to the idea that some countries / employers want to see your face before hiring. What is discriminatory in your own country is not in theirs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking as an employer:

During our school's expansion over the last few years we have grown from a faculty of about 75 including 4 foreigners to around 150 teachers, 25% of whom are foreigners.

In order to properly screen those foreign staff we need to confirm by something other than your simple resume (most of which are inadquate and poorly written) that you come from an English speaking country (passport), have a degree (scan of parchment and transcript), and are not disqualified from being a teacher (clear CRC).

It is not in our best interest to waste the time reading a resume that sounds like gold simply to find out later that the potential candidate is not eligible for a visa or work permit and/or cannot legally work as a teacher in our school.

Hence, you are required to submit your resume, scans of your degree, transcript, CBC and passport information page.

If they are not included as part of your application package then your application goes straight into the trash. There is no maybe about it.

When I was working for the POE in Korea it was the same. Prove you meet the requirements for the job/visa or get dropped at first glance. It has been that way for the last 12 years or more in most of Asia.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1818

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The passport scan is pretty much par for the course for most jobs. If you feel concerned about potential misuse, you could edit out the number before sending the image.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
have a degree (scan of parchment and transcript)


A quick question for you tttompatz.

As far as I know, I don't have a transcript of my degree. I've got the original certificate, but back when I got mine, UK universities didn't routinely issue transcripts as well.

Would you accept scans of UK degree certificates, or would candidates have to go that extra mile to ask for sth else (that might not now be available).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 796

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teacher in Rome wrote:

As far as I know, I don't have a transcript of my degree. I've got the original certificate, but back when I got mine, UK universities didn't routinely issue transcripts as well.


Same here TiR, I've been told that a transcript is needed to get a Korean visa. I can't get a transcript, but it seems it's not negotiable. I'd like to know what the situation is in other countries.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teacher in Rome wrote:
Quote:
have a degree (scan of parchment and transcript)


A quick question for you tttompatz.

As far as I know, I don't have a transcript of my degree. I've got the original certificate, but back when I got mine, UK universities didn't routinely issue transcripts as well.

Would you accept scans of UK degree certificates, or would candidates have to go that extra mile to ask for sth else (that might not now be available).


It is country dependent and not just an employer issue.

In Korea people used to need the transcript for immigration and immigration was firm in the requirement (no transcript = no visa) but the requirements have since changed to an apostille on a copy of the parchment but some consulates still want a copy of the transcript before they will issue a visa and some do not (like the Korean consulates in Japan)).

In Thailand NOW (not in the past) a transcript is required if you want to change your status to a non-b while IN Thailand or IF you are applying for an actual teaching license.

If you are getting your visa at a consulate outside of Thailand then sometimes they ask for them and sometimes they do not (varies from country to country). Last time I talked to someone from the UK they were able to obtain a non-b at the consulate in Birmingham without transcripts but the transcripts were required at the Thai embassy in Laos when one of my (new) staff went there for a new visa last month.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 796

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the all questions on this tttompatz. What's a non-b? And you say transcripts 'used to' be needed for Korea, have the rules changed?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1818

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Send an original document to somebody you don't know on the other side of the planet? I don't think so! Have the documents scanned and send the copies as image files (most people are happy with .jpg files). I can understand the school saying bring your docs with you; it's a pain but not completely unreasonable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tttompatz



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HLJHLJ wrote:
Sorry for the all questions on this tttompatz. What's a non-b? And you say transcripts 'used to' be needed for Korea, have the rules changed?


Yes, in Korea the rules changed (2010) from requiring a university sealed transcript and the original degree to having an apostille affixed to a certified true copy of the parchment. The visa class is E2.

In Thailand, the visa that allows you to work is the "non-b" and a work permit from the local labor office is also required. Typically, immigration and the labor office want photocopies of the transcript included in the application as well as seeing the actual, university issued degree and transcripts. If you are working in a K-12 school then the Thai Teachers Council also wants to see them before they issue a provisional teacher's license.

coledavis wrote:
Send an original document to somebody you don't know on the other side of the planet? I don't think so! Have the documents scanned and send the copies as image files (most people are happy with .jpg files). I can understand the school saying bring your docs with you; it's a pain but not completely unreasonable.


Just to confirm... DO NOT SEND YOUR ORIGINALS WITH ANY APPLICATION. Scans are adequate for the initial application.

You will probably need to send / bring the originals when you interview or if the interview is done by distance (skype or phone) then as part of the visa application process (the consulate, embassy or immigration office issuing your visa will want to see originals or legalized copies (varies from country to country).

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coratheexplorer



Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the explanations everyone. It does help me understand a bit more. Definitely a different way of doing things....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC