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things you cannot get used to
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Inflames



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realized something the other day.

I can handle going to sentou and onsen but some people go with coworkers or family. I've gone with coworkers before that was only with a few people but definitely couldn't handle doing that with family. Then again, most Japanese people would probably freak out at a German sauna.

Also, I really don't care for 社員旅行. I spend all week with these people - I don't want to have to give up my weekend to do spend more time with them.
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steki47



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 653
Location: BFE Inaka

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dove wrote:
The apologists like to explain this away by mentioning Japan's long tradition of erotic art. They most likely will use a phrase like "mizu shobai." Apologists love historical references.


Don't you mean "shunga"?
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 892

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
People learning Japanese who just outright lie about their listening comprehension skills.

"Oh, look at me! After only six weeks in a basic Japanese course, I can understand 50~60%!"

YEAH RIGHT.


I know right. Took me a good 2 years before I could honestly get 50%. Unless they are just going off of super basic conversations. As, even after 3+ years and being married, some shows or the news can bring me to 20% or even less Embarassed
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rxk22 wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
People learning Japanese who just outright lie about their listening comprehension skills.

"Oh, look at me! After only six weeks in a basic Japanese course, I can understand 50~60%!"

YEAH RIGHT.


I know right. Took me a good 2 years before I could honestly get 50%. Unless they are just going off of super basic conversations. As, even after 3+ years and being married, some shows or the news can bring me to 20% or even less Embarassed
Yeah, same here, basically. I just passed JLPT N3, which supposedly requires about 1,000 or so hours of study, but put on some variety or comedy program, and I'm probably down to 20% or less (at that point, it's better not to assign a percentage, and simply say "I have no clue what they're saying"). I'm actually much better at news since most of the news vocabulary is very regular and since newscasters speak very clearly. It's casual speech speech that's my kryptonite.

Anyways, the idea that someone could learn to understand 50~60% of regular speech in an introductory-level course is utterly absurd. I'm not sure why people lie like this (any ideas?) but it really gets under my skin.

All I can think is:
1) When they say "50~60%," they mean "50~60%" of what the teacher/audio tapes are saying (actually fairly unimpressive)

2) They're schizophrenic. They hear things that just aren't there. I knew this one woman who, despite having only Korean Language Proficiency Test Level 2 (i.e. elementary Korean) claimed she could understand her neighbors, the people at church, etc. saying bad things about her. I was skeptical at the time, since I had Level 5 (advanced Korean) and often couldn't understand things like that. One day, she started sending me e-mails about how she had attempted suicide by wading into a deep river, trying to drown herself. Things went downhill from there. She returned to the United States, and started sending me e-mails from a pseudonym claiming that the government was watching her, perhaps by satellite...

3) They're just outright lying because they've spent hundreds (or thousands) of hours studying a language and just don't want to acknowledge that despite all this study, a small child could still blow them away on most daily things.

I think those are the three big reasons people lie about it...any thoughts?
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 2522
Location: Chengdu, Sichuan, PRC

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacheratlarge wrote:
Oh, in case Chris and others thought there I had no optimistic thoughts,

delivery service - fantastic, with door to door as well as most conveneience stores offering it

public transport - convenience of going places, especially in Tokyo

work - can make a very good living here ( networking)

work hours/vacation time - I just came off another great vacation(oh well back to work)


Very Happy

All of those are great indeed. The convenience stores are quite...er uh, well, convenient...as well.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 2522
Location: Chengdu, Sichuan, PRC

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
One day, she started sending me e-mails about how she had attempted suicide by wading into a deep river, trying to drown herself. Things went downhill from there. She returned to the United States, and started sending me e-mails from a pseudonym claiming that the government was watching her, perhaps by satellite...


Shocked Shocked Shocked

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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OneJoelFifty



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll never get used to fat_chris's warm regards.
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 892

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
rxk22 wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
People learning Japanese who just outright lie about their listening comprehension skills.

"Oh, look at me! After only six weeks in a basic Japanese course, I can understand 50~60%!"

YEAH RIGHT.


I know right. Took me a good 2 years before I could honestly get 50%. Unless they are just going off of super basic conversations. As, even after 3+ years and being married, some shows or the news can bring me to 20% or even less Embarassed
Yeah, same here, basically. I just passed JLPT N3, which supposedly requires about 1,000 or so hours of study, but put on some variety or comedy program, and I'm probably down to 20% or less (at that point, it's better not to assign a percentage, and simply say "I have no clue what they're saying"). I'm actually much better at news since most of the news vocabulary is very regular and since newscasters speak very clearly. It's casual speech speech that's my kryptonite.

Anyways, the idea that someone could learn to understand 50~60% of regular speech in an introductory-level course is utterly absurd. I'm not sure why people lie like this (any ideas?) but it really gets under my skin.

All I can think is:
1) When they say "50~60%," they mean "50~60%" of what the teacher/audio tapes are saying (actually fairly unimpressive)

2) They're schizophrenic. They hear things that just aren't there. I knew this one woman who, despite having only Korean Language Proficiency Test Level 2 (i.e. elementary Korean) claimed she could understand her neighbors, the people at church, etc. saying bad things about her. I was skeptical at the time, since I had Level 5 (advanced Korean) and often couldn't understand things like that. One day, she started sending me e-mails about how she had attempted suicide by wading into a deep river, trying to drown herself. Things went downhill from there. She returned to the United States, and started sending me e-mails from a pseudonym claiming that the government was watching her, perhaps by satellite...

3) They're just outright lying because they've spent hundreds (or thousands) of hours studying a language and just don't want to acknowledge that despite all this study, a small child could still blow them away on most daily things.

I think those are the three big reasons people lie about it...any thoughts?


Wow on the number 2, have never seen that. That is something else.

For the lying, I think it is all about making it seem like they are better than they are. Which puts them up higher in the gaijin hierarchy.
I dunno man, maybe because they are around people they don't know, and can get away with lying?
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Alex_Ander



Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 57
Location: The fourth dimension.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still can't get used to how awesome it is to be teaching in Japan. Even if it's something lowly like eikaiwa work. When you look back at your old friends in your native country, it's amazing! What have they been doing? Stuck at the same old job doing the same 2 hour commute each day or on welfare?

No matter what people think about this type of gig. To me, it still beats the mundane life in the West.
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 856
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: things you cannot get used to Reply with quote

Rooster_2006 wrote:
Cool Teacher wrote:
Apologists for what???? Cool
An apologist is someone who is virtually incapable of acknowledging that Japan has faults. Whenever apologists see a Japanese person doing something wrong, they attempt to excuse the behavior, or worse, shift the blame onto America/westerners in general. In the worst cases, apologists actually try to shush/silence people with legitimate complaints, by calling them "whiners."

Ironically, most apologists I've met have been foreigners themselves. This is ironic because by constantly being apologists, they are undermining their own rights, and the rights of other foreigners.

Here are some examples:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. "I was assaulted in Roppongi."

Apologist: "Obviously it was your own fault. Japanese people aren't violent. You must have done something to piss them off."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. "I was refused entrance to an onsen for being white. The owner pointed to a sign on the door that said 'NO FOREIGNERS.'"

Apologist: "That could have happened in any country. All countries have discrimination. It's much worse in America for Asian-Americans."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. "I was waiting at a taxi stand and a taxi driver drove right by me. Then he picked up a Japanese person 50 meters down the road."

Apologist: "Well, you can't blame him. He thought you couldn't speak Japanese."

"But isn't it prejudiced to assume I don't speak Japanese just based on my appearance?"

Apologist: "No, of course not. This is Japan. Japanese people just aren't used to seeing foreigners who can speak Japanese, yet."

"But wouldn't it be racist if a taxi driver in America or Canada or the UK refused to pick up foreign-looking people because he assumed they couldn't speak English?"

Apologist: "No, that would be wrong. Things are different here, though, because this is Japan."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. "I've been with my company here in Japan for ten years, but never gotten a raise or promotion. I really feel like there's a glass ceiling here."

Apologist: "Then maybe you should go home. This is Japan, not your home country. Suck it up. They can do whatever they want because it's their country."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. "Why does Japanese permanent residency take ten years to acquire? In Taiwan, it takes five. In Hong Kong, it's seven. Why so long for Japan?"

Apologist: "Well, Japan has a rich culture and tradition. Perhaps if they let in too many foreigners, their rich culture and tradition, which are thousands of years old, would be threatened. You see, it's not that they dislike foreigners, it's just that they want to protect their rich cultural heritage. This is difficult for Americans to understand, since America has no culture or traditions since it is only 200 years old.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I cannot get used to apologists. They really get under my skin.


Yeah some of that gets a real eyeroll. Rolling Eyes Did you get assaulted in Roppongi? I'm sorry to hear that although that is interesting because I think if you tell a Japanese person they will say "Oh well Roppongi is a foreigner palce so I'm not surprised."

Actually some of the apologist answers are maybe right. Japane does have an old tradition and maybe people in Japan do worry abot the culture being diluted when too many foreigners come in because sometimes there are lots of tensions and violence caused by multiculturalism as Roppongi proves and as the USA proves. The USA is much more violent than Japan and a much bigger mixture of cultures. So, I don't know if this is a real quote but maybe:

Quote:
You see, it's not that they dislike foreigners, it's just that they want to protect their rich cultural heritage. This is difficult for Americans to understand, since America has no culture or traditions since it is only 200 years old.


it is sort of right. I know AMerica does have culture and traditions of course but maybe if the speaker said, " You see, it's not that they dislike foreigners, it's just that they want to protect their rich cultural heritage. America has a more welcomng attitude to immigaration but look at how many problems there are or seem to be and how divided the country is.

I know it is not PC to say that but it is true. Cool
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Rooster_2006



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rxk22 wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
rxk22 wrote:
Rooster_2006 wrote:
People learning Japanese who just outright lie about their listening comprehension skills.

"Oh, look at me! After only six weeks in a basic Japanese course, I can understand 50~60%!"

YEAH RIGHT.


I know right. Took me a good 2 years before I could honestly get 50%. Unless they are just going off of super basic conversations. As, even after 3+ years and being married, some shows or the news can bring me to 20% or even less Embarassed
Yeah, same here, basically. I just passed JLPT N3, which supposedly requires about 1,000 or so hours of study, but put on some variety or comedy program, and I'm probably down to 20% or less (at that point, it's better not to assign a percentage, and simply say "I have no clue what they're saying"). I'm actually much better at news since most of the news vocabulary is very regular and since newscasters speak very clearly. It's casual speech speech that's my kryptonite.

Anyways, the idea that someone could learn to understand 50~60% of regular speech in an introductory-level course is utterly absurd. I'm not sure why people lie like this (any ideas?) but it really gets under my skin.

All I can think is:
1) When they say "50~60%," they mean "50~60%" of what the teacher/audio tapes are saying (actually fairly unimpressive)

2) They're schizophrenic. They hear things that just aren't there. I knew this one woman who, despite having only Korean Language Proficiency Test Level 2 (i.e. elementary Korean) claimed she could understand her neighbors, the people at church, etc. saying bad things about her. I was skeptical at the time, since I had Level 5 (advanced Korean) and often couldn't understand things like that. One day, she started sending me e-mails about how she had attempted suicide by wading into a deep river, trying to drown herself. Things went downhill from there. She returned to the United States, and started sending me e-mails from a pseudonym claiming that the government was watching her, perhaps by satellite...

3) They're just outright lying because they've spent hundreds (or thousands) of hours studying a language and just don't want to acknowledge that despite all this study, a small child could still blow them away on most daily things.

I think those are the three big reasons people lie about it...any thoughts?


Wow on the number 2, have never seen that. That is something else.

For the lying, I think it is all about making it seem like they are better than they are. Which puts them up higher in the gaijin hierarchy.
I dunno man, maybe because they are around people they don't know, and can get away with lying?


I agree that it's generally lying. However, I've also known very honest, sincere people who claim their listening comprehension stats are way higher than they can possibly be. One of my neighbors from America springs to mind. I've known this guy for almost 20 years. I don't think I've ever caught him in a lie. He's a devout Christian and a really honest guy. But he makes claims about what he can understand in Japanese that I simply do not believe.

So either he's lying (highly out of character), or he's "hearing things" (his mind is inserting meanings that may not actually be there).

I think a lot of people (even plenty of non-schizophrenics) "hear things" when they listen to Japanese that aren't really there. Or hear one word in the sentence, see a facial expression, and see a context clue, and claim to have "understood" the sentence when what they're really doing is making an educated guess, at best.
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teacheratlarge



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 155
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fat_chris wrote:
teacheratlarge wrote:
....
delivery service - fantastic, with door to door as well as most conveneience stores offering it

public transport - convenience of going places, especially in Tokyo..



Very Happy

All of those are great indeed. The convenience stores are quite...er uh, well, convenient...as well.

Warm regards,
fat_chris


Perhaps you haven't visited some cities where the public transportation is less than reliable at times (London comes chiefly to mind, listening to annoucements about having enough water while waiting through a lengthy wait in a hot summer).
Delivery from convenience stores is not a regular part of life in most countries, in case you weren't aware of that (innocence perhaps? Cool ).
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rich45



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a ceremony for every little thing, e.g. the "opening" of the swimming pool each summer.

Also, so-called "drinking parties" again after every little occasion...sports day, music festival, end of term, Christmas, etc.

People reversing into parking spots, even if it is possible to just drive through the adjacent one with the same result.
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ZennoSaji



Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 67
Location: Mito, JP in 3, 2, 1...

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rich45 wrote:
People reversing into parking spots, even if it is possible to just drive through the adjacent one with the same result.

Definitely not unique to Japan. But I'm in fact marveling that there's space for them to do that? O_O *I have the same reaction to people backing into spaces at my college parking lots.
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 892

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rooster_2006"][quote="rxk22"][quote="Rooster_2006"][quote="rxk22"]
Rooster_2006 wrote:


I agree that it's generally lying. However, I've also known very honest, sincere people who claim their listening comprehension stats are way higher than they can possibly be. One of my neighbors from America springs to mind. I've known this guy for almost 20 years. I don't think I've ever caught him in a lie. He's a devout Christian and a really honest guy. But he makes claims about what he can understand in Japanese that I simply do not believe.

So either he's lying (highly out of character), or he's "hearing things" (his mind is inserting meanings that may not actually be there).

I think a lot of people (even plenty of non-schizophrenics) "hear things" when they listen to Japanese that aren't really there. Or hear one word in the sentence, see a facial expression, and see a context clue, and claim to have "understood" the sentence when what they're really doing is making an educated guess, at best.


Got me man. I guess we tend to believe that we are better than we really are. it is a real phenomenon, but I forget what it is called. Maybe we all suffer from that, much more so than we think?
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