Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

New Immigration Rules
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Mexico
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Samantha



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2032
Location: Mexican Riviera

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isla, I really believe it will be easier, just as PhilK mentioned. The new law was written to make it easier for immigrants (from the southern border) to become permanent and have rights in Mexico, not to make things more difficult for them.

T, the only reason I can think of for someone from north of the border, living here full-time, to remain a "temporary resident" is to keep a foreign plated car here. Seriously. If expats want to split time between here and up north, they should be considered temporary residents. I don't think this is the big deal it's being made out to be. I think this will be the best change yet (and yeah, I've seen lots of changes over the years, along with local interpretations of said changes). I understand people don't like change, but we should be used to it, living in Mexico. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samantha wrote: "T, the only reason I can think of for someone from north of the border, living here full-time, to remain a "temporary resident" is to keep a foreign plated car here. Seriously. If expats want to split time between here and up north, they should be considered temporary residents."

I understand you to mean, those who actually have a choice as to whether to ask for temporary residence, or permanent residence, can elect, which would mean they can qualify for either. Art 139 gives us the exhaustive list of those who can qualify for permanent residency. Here's what it says-

La condición de estancia de residente permanente prevista en el artículo 52, fracción IX, de la Ley se otorgará a la persona extranjera que demuestre alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
I. Tener reconocimiento de la condición de refugiado, otorgamiento de protección complementaria, asilo político o determinación de apátrida en términos de la legislación en la materia;
II.Tener vínculo con mexicano o persona extranjera residente permanente, conforme a las hipótesis de unidad familiar en términos de lo previsto en el artículo 55 de la Ley;
III. Ser pensionado o jubilado con ingresos mensuales suficientes para su manutención durante su estancia en el territorio nacional;
IV. Que cumple con las categorías y el puntaje mínimo requerido por sistema de puntos, conforme a las disposiciones administrativas de carácter general que emita la Secretaría y que serán publicadas en el Diario Oficial de la Federación;
V. Tener situación migratoria regular por cuatro años consecutivos, en el caso de los residentes temporales;
VI. Tener parentesco en línea recta ascendente o descendente hasta el segundo grado con mexicano por nacimiento, y
VII. Tener situación migratoria regular por dos años consecutivos como residente temporal, siempre y cuando la condición de estancia se haya otorgado por tener relación conyugal o de concubinato o figura equivalente con mexicano o residente permanente y que subsista dicha relación.

Outside of these, permanent residency is not an option. Notice the ability of a retiree to go straight to permanent residency, without any time in temporary residency. Many others will still need four years in temporary residency. I believe that credit will be given for time spent in FM2/3, and Inmigrante/No Inmigrante, towards this four year requirement.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tretyakovskii, thanks for posting the above message. I saw it on another expat forum but had forgotten the details. It looks like I will qualify for permanent residency under #V. I wonder if that will require that I still file monthly tax statements or if that will become optional. A ver qué pasa...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9401
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
IV. Que cumple con las categorías y el puntaje mínimo requerido por sistema de puntos, conforme a las disposiciones administrativas de carácter general que emita la Secretaría y que serán publicadas en el Diario Oficial de la Federación;


I'd like to see more details on this rather catchall section. A points system is similar to what Canada runs. It sounds like this is aimed more at those crossing the southern border.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Samantha



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2032
Location: Mexican Riviera

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bingo!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"It sounds like this is aimed more at those crossing the southern border."

On the contrary, it's more about recognizing those whom Mexico might like to see remain in the country, long term. Here's the details on the point system for obtaining permanent residency, such as are available at this time:

CAPÍTULO SEGUNDO, DEL SISTEMA DE PUNTOS

Artículo 124. El sistema de puntos para que las personas extranjeras puedan adquirir la residencia permanente, establecerá criterios de selección para atraer personas extranjeras inversionistas o con alta competencia en áreas como la ciencia, la tecnología, el deporte, las humanidades y las artes o aquellos que fortalezcan y fomenten el desarrollo y competitividad en el territorio nacional.

Artículo 125. Los criterios de selección podrán incorporar, entre otras, las siguientes categorías:

I. Nivel educativo;
II. Experiencia laboral en áreas de interés para el país que tengan gran demanda y poca oferta;
III. Experiencia laboral en otras áreas;
IV. Inversionista;
V. Aptitudes en ciencia y tecnología;
VI. Reconocimientos o premios internacionales;
VII. Dominio del idioma español, y
VIII. Conocimiento de la cultura mexicana.

La Secretaría establecerá mediante disposiciones administrativas de carácter general que se publicarán en el Diario Oficial de la Federación, las categorías; la ponderación de puntos que corresponda a cada categoría; así como el puntaje mínimo que se requiera para ingresar por esta vía.

La Secretaría en conjunto con las dependencias que estime convenientes, revisará el sistema de puntos cada tres años, y en su caso publicará en el Diario Oficial de la Federación, la adición, modificación o supresión de categorías; la ponderación de puntos que corresponda a cada una de ellas; así como los puntajes mínimos y demás datos que estime pertinentes.

Artículo 126. La persona extranjera que pretenda ingresar al territorio nacional a través del sistema de puntos debe presentar la solicitud de visa ante la oficina consular, debiendo adjuntar el formato de precalificación debidamente llenado y los documentos que acreditan las categorías que cumple.

Lo anterior conforme al procedimiento y requisitos previstos en las disposiciones administrativas de carácter general que serán publicadas en el Diario Oficial de la Federación.

Artículo 127. La persona extranjera titular de la condición de estancia de residente temporal o la persona extranjera que al término de algún encargo oficial desee permanecer en el territorio nacional, podrá solicitar por la vía del sistema de puntos el cambio a la condición de estancia de residente permanente, o bien, la autorización de la misma.

Para efecto de lo anterior, debe presentar la solicitud de trámite correspondiente ante el Instituto, debiendo adjuntar el formato de precalificación debidamente llenado y los documentos que acreditan las categorías que cumple.

Lo anterior conforme al procedimiento y requisitos previstos en las disposiciones administrativas de carácter general que serán publicadas en el Diario Oficial de la Federación
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Samantha



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2032
Location: Mexican Riviera

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a suggestion, but why don't you post the entire Spanish document link in it's entirety so that everyone can translate it and weed through it if they want? I would have done that except it really isn't something pertinent to most of us on the forum, especially at this point. The rules need to be defined and applied yet, so until then all this is just words (in Spanish). A super big deal is being made out of this, when it really is very simple, IMHO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9401
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"It sounds like this is aimed more at those crossing the southern border."

On the contrary, it's more about recognizing those whom Mexico might like to see remain in the country, long term. Here's the details on the point system for obtaining permanent residency, such as are available at this time:


Oh I didn't mean to say it helps those coming up from the southern border...I meant to say it seems to sort them out, just like we do in Canada and how y'all mostly do in the US.

But, this is one section of many and that doesn't say anything at all really. Overall it looks like a streamlining more than anything else with little actual change. We'll have to wait and see like Sam says here as to how it plays out in each individual office.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just a suggestion, but why don't you post the entire Spanish document link in it's entirety so that everyone can translate it and weed through it if they want?

Great minds think alike, I guess, Samantha. The first post in this thread contains a link to the new regulations; at the bottom of page 2, links to both the law and the regulations are included; and, at the bottom of page three I called attention to the existence of the links posted on p.2, in case some had overlooked them.

Then, I've been mentioning section numbers to save time for those who wanted to look for themselves, without having to peruse the two, very long, Spanish Language documents. (I did read both of them myself, because there is no other way to get a feel for how the various sections interact with each other.)


Quote:
But, this is one section of many and that doesn't say anything at all really.

I don't see it that way, Guy. The point system is set up to offer permanent residence to persons of exceptional usefulness to the development of the country, mainly, along with other characteristics of value to the country, and provide a way to quantify it.

What it says is what they will be looking at, in making that determination.

Quote:
Overall it looks like a streamlining more than anything else with little actual change.

There was no legislated point system in the prior law.
Quote:
...it really isn't something pertinent to most of us on the forum....

That might be going too far, Samantha, given that some people on this forum are employers, and might be concerned with whether they'll be able to continue to sponsor new employees for a change of status, in country, after they've arrived without a visa; or, who've been in FM3 and No Inmigrante status for a total of four years and might want to be able to move to permanent resident, and never have to renew again.

Many of the changes are significant, some are profound.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1131
Location: 17°48'N 97°46'W

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really concerned about myself as I'm directly related to Mexican citizens.

But if we hire someone new, on an indefinite contract--Do they go directily to permanet resident?

And technically, we initially hire people on a 6 month contract, that is renewed once, then become indefinite after completing a year. So will that mean they must go twice in their first year--then never again after their 3rd time?

And costs--any mention of costs? it seems like there is a potential for a significant loss of revenue! But then IMN should have lower opperating costs as well, without every FM2 holder returning each year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, M.F. Take a look at my post near the end of page three where, for what it´s worth, I wrote some observations about the issue you´d raised.

Under the new pricing scheme, longer duration, temporary residency documents will cost more, but there is a savings compared to the cost of the one year documents.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a question some of you may have had direct experience with. In obtaining permission to settle in Mexico as a family member, where is the source of information on the exact amounts and means by which you establish economic solvency?

I tried a search in the Diario Official de la Federacion and got nowhere.

Anyone?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Samantha



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2032
Location: Mexican Riviera

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not nearly everything is in writing. And that which is, is often ignored. That's why it's important to wait and see what each office does with the information in those long boring pages. Maybe I have lived here too long, but getting whipped into a frenzy without knowing how it really will shake out seems pointless.

To answer your specific question, here is my take from experience: as long as the Mexican spouse has a steady income and can prove it, that's good enough for most INM offices. That and a bunch of different paperwork. I guess they figure if you choose to marry a Mexican national, you have already decided to live within whatever means he or she can provide.

Another thing we learned is if a Mexican man/woman of lesser means applies for Inmigrante status for a spouse from, say, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, they do not (because they cannot) pay the same rather hefty immigration fee that the rest pay. The goal has been to keep families together and legal in Mexico, according to our local INM office. There are laws and links and then there is the real world.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...as long as the Mexican spouse has a steady income and can prove it, that's good enough for most INM offices. That and a bunch of different paperwork. I guess they figure if you choose to marry a Mexican national, you have already decided to live within whatever means he or she can provide.

Makes sense to me!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(In reading the following comments, please keep in mind it is nothing more than an opinion, informed by a careful reading of the new law and regulations, nothing more.)

Getting back to the subject of visa free entry, I think what we can say about it is that there is reasonable uncertainty about how this will be handled for those who enter after 9 November. What you are reading is my understanding of what this law says.

Under the current law, it wasn't necessary to declare your intent. Under the new law it appears to me that, if you don't, you will be classified "Visitante," in one of the several categories, and unable to apply for a change of status, afterwards.

On the FMM there are little boxes for the INM official to indicate whether you're entering with a visa for an FM2 or FM3, among other things. The new law speaks of the agent noting, in the case of visa free entry, the intent of the person entering the country.

If it were me who was entering with the plan to teach English, I'd be carrying all my documentation establishing my credentials, and declare it was my intent to seek a teaching position in the D.F., for example, and once I had an offer, to apply, in country, for an FM3 (everyone is still using this terminology, in practice).

Here's the important point, it seems to me: once the official ticks the box for an FM3, you will have just 30 days in which to find a job and get an application for FM3 submitted, or leave the country. Enter as a Visitante, and be given 180 days, you cannot then change status, as the new law reads.

My theory about why this may reconcile the issues involved is that, once the agent ticks that you will be seeking an FM3, applying for one is consistent with the notation, you are not entering as a "Visitante" and you are not seeking a "status change" in the meaning of that term as it is used in Art 53 of the new law, and 141 of the new regulations.
____________________

Quote:
But if we hire someone new, on an indefinite contract--Do they go directily to permanet resident?

MotherF, did you see my comments on your question (on page three, at or near the bottom, I believe)? If you did, did you have a chance to consider it, in light of what the regulations say about eligibility for permanent residency?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Mexico All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC